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Old 01-11-2022, 10:09 AM   #1
CheckMark
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Bert Norman

Had a friend who has this book/manual called "The Best Of Bert Norman" with some of the methods he has in here are "Quick Figure Handicapping" "Speed Key I-II" "Winners Club" and a few others

Screen Shot 2022-01-11 at 10.08.41 AM.png

I told my friend I will look into the book but I just wanted to ask here and see if anyone knows about Bert and if the material has been useful to you just so I am on the same page

Thanks all
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Old 01-11-2022, 10:39 AM   #2
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I've only read Bert's Quick Figure Handicapping.

Not rocket science. Nothing that stood out as being even remotely powerful.

But, now that its been mentioned, I guess I'll read it again.

I might see it differently 30 years later. LOL
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Old 01-11-2022, 04:31 PM   #3
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I have the QFH book too. (Buried somewhere.) I also read it a long time ago. If i recall there was nothing special about it. In my opinion the only thing that older books are good for now is to stimulate a new idea that makes sense in today's handicapping world. It's how I feel about most spot plays, systems, or methods. Unless they have been thoroughly tested on recent data, I don't feel there is any real value to them either, save for the occasional idea.
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Old 01-11-2022, 05:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by headhawg View Post
I have the QFH book too. (Buried somewhere.) I also read it a long time ago. If i recall there was nothing special about it. In my opinion the only thing that older books are good for now is to stimulate a new idea that makes sense in today's handicapping world. It's how I feel about most spot plays, systems, or methods. Unless they have been thoroughly tested on recent data, I don't feel there is any real value to them either, save for the occasional idea.
Exactly.
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Old 01-11-2022, 08:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg View Post
I have the QFH book too. (Buried somewhere.) I also read it a long time ago. If i recall there was nothing special about it. In my opinion the only thing that older books are good for now is to stimulate a new idea that makes sense in today's handicapping world. It's how I feel about most spot plays, systems, or methods. Unless they have been thoroughly tested on recent data, I don't feel there is any real value to them either, save for the occasional idea.
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
I've only read Bert's Quick Figure Handicapping.

Not rocket science. Nothing that stood out as being even remotely powerful.

But, now that its been mentioned, I guess I'll read it again.

I might see it differently 30 years later. LOL
Ok thank you headhawg and Dave for the input
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Old 01-16-2022, 09:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
I've only read Bert's Quick Figure Handicapping.

Not rocket science. Nothing that stood out as being even remotely powerful.

But, now that its been mentioned, I guess I'll read it again.

I might see it differently 30 years later. LOL
RPM is selling his Speed Key in software

Bert, who is the Originator of Quick Figure Handicapping©, Praised By Top Handicappers Tom Brohammer and Dr. Howard Sartin As The Best ‘Figure’ Methodology Ever Developed,
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Old 01-16-2022, 10:40 AM   #7
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Old 01-16-2022, 11:56 AM   #8
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Maybe Bert Norman's work is outdated now, but in the pre-computer days Bert had some of the best paper/pencil methods available. For the time period they were very clever--although the way they were typed out and printed in the old days, looked more like a ransom note than anything.
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Old 01-18-2022, 09:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
I've only read Bert's Quick Figure Handicapping.

Not rocket science. Nothing that stood out as being even remotely powerful.

But, now that its been mentioned, I guess I'll read it again.

I might see it differently 30 years later. LOL
Years ago I mailed the book "The matchup 2" by Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw to a member here on pace advantage for free. All I can recall was the book seemed terible to me at the time, but it seems people still hold his work in high regards.... kind of makes me wonder if I should have kept it to re-read it today... and that I may appreciate something I missed back when I was younger? I think I was much smarter when i was younger... so who knows.

As for Bert, I remember reading that Brohamer use to use his quick figures...Then, his bankroll took a dip
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Old 01-18-2022, 09:28 PM   #10
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Years ago I mailed the book "The matchup 2" by Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw to a member here on pace advantage for free. All I can recall was the book seemed terible to me at the time, but it seems people still hold his work in high regards.... kind of makes me wonder if I should have kept it to re-read it today... and that I may appreciate something I missed back when I was younger? I think I was much smarter when i was younger... so who knows.

As for Bert, I remember reading that Brohamer use to use his quick figures...Then, his bankroll took a dip
If you really want to read The Matchup 2 again...send me your address by personal message. I'll send it to you for free...which is exactly what I think it's worth.

But don't hold me responsible for the "after-effects"...

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Old 01-18-2022, 09:47 PM   #11
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For the hard core PP's readers , The Match Up was instrumental in learning how the race should be ran....

Yes, the book(s) were written just like Jim was talking to you and could have been polished up.

There still is teachings of The Match Up at Pace and Cap under Ted Craven .

You will better understand how things work way better than the book shows you.

I myself still use it in my handicapping.

Mike

Last edited by geroge.burns99; 01-18-2022 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 01-18-2022, 10:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
If you really want to read The Matchup 2 again...send me your address by personal message. I'll send it to you for free...which is exactly what I think it's worth.

But don't hold me responsible for the "after-effects"...
@thasklos Good looking out and I appreciate the offer. Your post is very similar to the one I wrote years back when the guy offered me money for the book. I kind of laughed and said I'll send it to him for free.

I do appreciate the offer though. Going to trust my memory and have faith in my younger self that I wouldn't give a book away if it held any information that I deemed was valuable.

@geroge.burns99 Thanks will give the Ted Craven posts a view when I get the time. Just out of curiosity as I love the old lore and the people in this game. I guess anyone know knows more about this game than i do... I tend enjoy listening to them.
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Old 01-19-2022, 08:58 AM   #13
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Philips Racing Newsletter

I was just getting into horse racing and subscribed to Philips Racing Newsletter

at the time Bert Norman's methods were coming out. Russ Dietrich rated all

of his work very high giving very favorable reviews. I never purchased any of

his books but Russ' good reviews possibly was a reason he was highly touted.
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Old 01-19-2022, 12:06 PM   #14
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I will reiterate my earlier point -- it is unlikely that any older systems or methods will hold up today. It is also unlikely that those things worked back when they were written. Do you really think that QFH handicapping was tested on 100,000+ races to check the profitability? Of course not.

But it is possible that those old systems will provide inspiration with an idea worth pursuing. A more contemporary example is Barry Meadow's latest book. Based on research with Ken Massa there was nothing to be found in terms of profitable factors. But for me, the best part of the book was all of the questions Meadow proposed on different topics. He is a much more experienced horseplayer than I am, so there were things he wrote that I hadn't thought about.

I guess what I am saying is that there might be some good stuff in those old writings, but I don't believe you can take any of them at face value.
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Old 01-19-2022, 06:07 PM   #15
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RPM had a holiday sale which was pretty good so I purchased the Bert Norman Speed Key Software which came with the ebook and some other free ebooks and software. I'm always looking for something I can add to my software program so it was a good deal!

The Speed Key method is definitely different! Here's a printout from Penn National 1-19-22.
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