my years counting cards

[Half Smoke]

____________


between 1988 and 1994 I counted cards at blackjack in Atlantic City, which was about a 3.5 hour drive from where I lived in Maryland. I drove and played every single week on my day off for about 14 hours straight breaking only to wolf down a sandwich. then I drove back, without paying for a hotel, napping in my car once or twice to make the trip home easier.

I didn't have the great games the Vegas guys had - pitch games with one or two decks - they could sometimes find sloppy dealers and see the hole card giving them a huge advantage - but there was also much more sophisticated tracking in Vegas and they could get barred or thrown out

Atlantic City - the shoe game - 6 or 8 decks was beatable - but much harder to beat - the casinos knew this, and generally didn't hassle players - I was never thrown out of a casino - I got what counters call "heat" a few times

I made about $6K every single year which was roughly equal to about $12K in today's dollars. certainly not enough for anybody to want to make a movie about me. but it was pretty good money for me back then - for me now, it's peanuts.

I didn't want to go to Vegas for the better games. It would take too much time, I had a full time job - and I didn't bet big enough to get great comps.


first: the 2 greatest myths about advantage play in blackjack:


1. Card Counting is Illegal


totally false - there no law anywhere that indicates that card counting is a crime


2. Card Counters are Geniuses who memorizes cards


again, totally false. I'm no genius. when I discussed what I did with friends they would often ask how could I memorize cards with 8 decks: the answer - I, and no other typical counters memorize cards - we added and subtracted and divided - I could have counted down 100 decks - once you learned it, it wasn't that difficult


there is a gigantic controversy among blackjack advantage players as to whether or not it is best to use a simple count - which I used - known as Hi/Lo, or Dubner - or to use a more complex count

if I had used a more complex count my profit would have been about 20% greater - but it's more demanding - and I doubt that I could have played for very long hours as I did - so, regarding the controversy - I don't have a strong opinion - I think it depends on the individual - I have no doubt that I would have found a more complex count more tiring

how do card counters operate_________?

the first part of the operation is known as "Basic Strategy." this dictates the decision as to whether or not to hit or stand or double down. playing perfect basic strategy the player has only a tiny disadvantage - about .5%. a more advanced strategy, which I sometimes employed was to change your strategy based on the count

the next step is tracking cards, which was first codified by Edward O. Thorp, in his landmark book entitled "Beat the Dealer". he was a mathematical genius who left this business to make gigantic sums of money in the stock market

the theory is - actually, it's no longer a theory, it is undoubtable - that the advantage player is looking for an imbalance in the cards remaining to be played. when there are more low cards left, the player's disadvantage increases. when there are more high cards left to be played the player's prospects increase to the point where he may have a substantial advantage.

the count system I used - Hi/Lo or Dubner counted the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 as low cards. the 10, Jack, Queen, King and Ace were counted as high cards. the 7, 8 and 9 were considered neutral cards and did not affect the count.

if , for example my running count was 8 (8 more low cards than high cards had been dealt out) and there were 4 decks left to be played - I gained .5% for ever 1 imbalance in favor of high cards remaining to be played divided by the decks remaining to be played - which were estimated. so, 8 divided by 4 equals 2 - I began the game with a .5% disadvantage - because of the imbalance I now had a 1.5% advantage. not much, you may say, but remember, this is not horse racing. I could make more than 1,000 bets in just one day.


there are 3 main reasons why an imbalance of high cards remaining to be played benefits the player


1.______ the player is more likely to draw blackjack which paid a bonus of 50% or 3/2. the dealer is more likely to draw blackjack too, but he does not receive any bonus. now, many of the cheap ass casinos only pay 6/5 when the player draws blackjack reducing the player's expectation


2.____ the player is more likely to draw a high card on his double downs hitting 21 or 20 - a hand of 21 or 20 is very likely to be a winner


3._______the dealer is required by the rules of the game to hit until he has 17 or better - since there are more high cards than low cards left when he hits his hand at 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16 he is much more likely to bust


I would usually extend my stay in Atlantic City by an hour or 2 to visit the strip clubs. the girls there were absolutely gorgeous. beat the hell out of the strip clubs in DC_______________(~:/



.

[lamboguy]

you can go to plenty of casino's and they will let you count all the cards you want.. you can even take a pad of paper and a pencil and write everything down. you will never beat them with their rules. they are hitting soft 17's and only paying you 6/5 on a blackjack. not sure, but i don't think they even give you 2-1 for insurance.

[Half Smoke]

___________


there was an error, in my OP which I am no longer able to edit

in the example given - with a running count of 8 and 4 decks remaining to be

played, my advantage would not be 1.5% as stated but .5%.


with a running count of 12 and 4 decks remaining to be played my advantage

would be 1.5%


the gain is .5% for every 1 imbalance in the true count which is the running

divided by the decks remaining to be played



.

[Half Smoke]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

you can go to plenty of casino's and they will let you count all the cards you want.. you can even take a pad of paper and a pencil and write everything down. you will never beat them with their rules. they are hitting soft 17's and only paying you 6/5 on a blackjack. not sure, but i don't think they even give you 2-1 for insurance.

you're referring to the present

I was referring to the past - 1988 thru 1994 - there was no 6/5 at that time

if you're saying that all casinos now pay 6/5 I'm sure that is incorrect

I believe there are quite a few that still pay 3/2



the King of blackjack forums is blackjacktheforum.com which I participate in


although I no longer play, there are still many active players


there is no way these pros would be playing if ALL of the casinos only paid 6/5 when blackjack is drawn


there are many pros participating on that site



of course, casinos are in competition against each other

if a casino thinks it can draw $200K more action per day by offering 3/2 on blackjack they will do

just that - and try to cut the other casino's throats



.

[davew]

what was the bet range you used?

if 1 was your base bet, how much would you raise it if you had a very favorable deck? or did you start playing more hands on 2 or 3 spots?

[Half Smoke]

Originally Posted by davew

what was the bet range you used?

if 1 was your base bet, how much would you raise it if you had a very favorable deck? or did you start playing more hands on 2 or 3 spots?

at the time my small bet was $10 and my largest bet was $125 at a few times but more likely $90

I sometimes played 2 spots but most of the time 1 spot -

2 spots while counting would usually give me a headache

my days off at the time (I was selling furniture so I worked on weekends) were Thursdays and Fridays. I went on Thursdays when it was less busy than the weekends. because it was less busy I could get in many hands per hour with only a few at my table - only the summers were very busy - the winters were very slow

playing 3 spots would have attracted too much attention

I don't believe many counters played or play 3 spots


.

[lamboguy]

in the Encore Hotel in Boston, downstairs is the gaff game. while upstairs the minimum bet was $500 with a maximum of $10,000 and they had regular, normal blackjack rules. there weren't that many tables upstairs, maybe 10 total.

i saw the same thing at The Hardrock in Ft, Lauderdale, but their minimum bet was $100, i don't remember the max there. i didn't play in either place.

i did play poker once in the Encore in the 2-5 no limit game. they were taking 10% up to $10. the same game at the Hardrock was 10% up to $5.00








ft,

[Bustin Stones]

My philosophy is to never play a game of chance where the house sets the odds. Even if you beat the odds, the payoff isn't worth your time.

When playing poker stick with tournament poker.
Poker teams cannot fleece you.
You cannot be bullied out of a hand as long as you bet whatever you have left.

[Dave Schwartz]

Half Smoke,

Good posts, and accurate for the times.

The mid-70s were my hey-days for card counting. I made roughly $600k in 18 months and had almost nothing to show for it.

Whose fault was that, do you suppose? LOL

As I was developing as a player, I worked as a dealer. After work, I'd play 5 or 6 hours almost every night and 10+ on my days off.

$1 units, 30 unit sessions.
Always at the Horseshoe.
They barred almost nobody.
My reasoning was that when they barred me, I'd know I was GOOD.

Back then, I was playing a 1-4 spread.
2 units off the top, up to 4 units or down to 1.
Never spread 4 units unless I'd won for 2 units.

Sessions were increased in a Fibonacci:
$1-$2-$3-$5-$8-$12-$20-$25-$40
A lost session caused me to take 2 steps back.

I wanted to play on the strip, so every time I got to $5 I'd leave Binion's and head south. Then I'd lose and come back. LOL

Eventually, I decided to stay at Binion's. LOL

Took me a long time to break out beyond $8 then, over the course of a couple of weeks, the planets lined up. I won 16 sessions in a row!

I also modified my session strategy:
$1-$2-$3 Withdraw $90

$3-$5-$8-$12 Withdraw $360

$12-$20-$25-$40 Withdraw $1,200

$40-$60-$100 withdraw $3,000

Stayed at $100 for quite a while.

The net result was a total withdrawal of almost $16k.

At $25 units, Binion's said that I could keep playing only if I agreed to 1-3 spread.


BTW, I wanted to clock my advantage.
So, I dropped down to $5 units, and bought a couple of those little red grocery store counters that went up to $20. I didn't count every bet. Instead, I counted the money in front of me, and, once I had bet through it, repeated the process.

Over roughly 3,000 hands, I averaged a 0.6% advantage and locked that in as "my advantage" - playing 1-3.

Funny thing... The Horseshoe bosses knew what I was doing. In fact, they were as interested in the answer as I was.

During that time I played only late swing & graveyard. Jack Newton was the graveyard boss. He'd watched me play for months.

As a really strong player himself, he would actually stop the game and ask me, "How could you make that play?"

Eventually, as his respect grew, HOW changed to WHY.

Love telling these old stories.

[Half Smoke]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

Even if you beat the odds, the payoff isn't worth your time.

can't say that I agree with that at all
of course, I didn't make big bucks - but the amount of money at that time had some significance to me

but it was a lot more than that
I had a lot of pride in what I did - and it was a lot of fun
I have no doubt that those here who are profitable betting racing have pride in that even if they're not making big bucks

I really looked forward to every Thursday and the different environment


.

[Cuffdaddy]

Great thread, details and stories are so very interesting.

[Tom]

I used to count cards, but I always got 52 so I stopped.

[TJDave]

Can’t think of a more boring way to make money. I’d rather slit my wrists.

[tbwinner]

Still lots of $15 tables paying 3-2 downtown LV. Get to $25 and $50 and you can get double deck and stand soft 17 rules. On the strip that's $100+.

[tbwinner]

Counting in LV will quickly get you 86'd if you're good at it.

Gambling With An Edge is a great podcast where they talk about counting and other Advantage Player techniques.