Bob Baffert suspended 90 days, fined $7,500, Medina Spirit DQed from Kentucky Derby

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by the little guy

NYRA is NOT a "unit of the NY State government."

Why is NYRA giving Baffert an administrative hearing if it isn't a public actor?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ing-vs-baffert

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

Why is NYRA giving Baffert an administrative hearing if it isn't a public actor?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ing-vs-baffert

Because a judge ruled that way. You can probably google it and find out the specifics.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I thought we covered that.

I think we skipped past it - at this point I think the question is "how much process is due?". NYRA hasn't won on being a private actor; it can win by conducting a sufficiently fair civil administrative process, which it is trying to tune up.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by davew

from Paulicks article->


The unrefuted and undisputed facts established at the hearing were: (1) Medina Spirit was treated with an ointment, not an injection; (2) the trace amount of betamethasone detected could not have affected the horse in any way; and (3) the trace amount of betamethasone detected could not possibly have affected the outcome of the race.





'The unrefuted and undisputed facts established at the hearing' is an awfully strong statement, almost like 100% certainty or settled science.


A more accurate wording would be 'claims presented' ...

The claims presented at the hearing were:

The Paulick "article" cited is a press release from Baffert's attorneys rather than a Paulick staff written article, hence the nature of the wording.

[davew]

Originally Posted by BarchCapper

The Paulick "article" cited is a press release from Baffert's attorneys rather than a Paulick staff written article, hence the nature of the wording.

Thanks, I should have known when mostpost was quoting facts, they were nothing but an opinion.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Because a judge ruled that way. You can probably google it and find out the specifics.

It's not just one judge. I really want to emphasize how big a falsehood this is.

NYRA has literally argued over and over again, to state and federal courts, for decades, that it is not part of the government. It has lost, over and over again.

In addition to the Baffert case, see all of these:

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...5/164/1668333/

https://casetext.com/case/garcia-v-n...ng-association

https://casetext.com/case/galvin-v-n...cing-assn#p173

https://casetext.com/case/saumell-v-nys-racing-bd#p237

https://casetext.com/case/halpern-v-lomenzo-1

I really don't understand what is going on with TLG on this point. It really bothers him. It must bother NYRA, because they keep going into court and losing on the issue, wasting money on legal fees to do it.

But when you have AT LEAST SIX PUBLISHED OPINIONS RULING SOMETHING, that's the law. It's not in doubt. And when TLG insists it isn't the law (apparently saying what his bosses want people to say), it just looks foolish and sad.

(Oh, and by the way, TLG, I literally published an over 60 page research paper on the state action doctrine (i.e., the doctrine that determines what entities are governmental for purposes of the Constitution and the Civil Rights statutes). It has also come up in several cases I have worked on. I know this area of the law pretty cold, so your suggestion that I don't know what I am talking about is not applicable.)

[classhandicapper]

I've mentioned this before, but numerous track and field athletes have tested positive for cold medication and gotten 2 year suspensions. Cold medication. Why does track and field do this? Because common over the counter cold medications have performance enhancing characteristics. So what is a track and field athlete supposed to do when they get a cold? Well, one of two things: either (1) take a medication that is not on the banned substance list, or (2) go to the testing authority or sanctioning body and get permission to take the substance, at controlled dosage, under that authority/body's supervision.

It's on horse racing to determine which drugs have secondary impacts, at what level, and set the rules so no one can try to get a backdoor edge. Then it's on vets to make sure the medications are being used for their intended purpose and properly. If you want to say the punishments for therapeutic overages should be harsher, I don't have a huge problem with that as long as horses aren't suffering because we are over the top.

A lot of horseplayers put energy into studying trainers. I'd way rather know who the treating vets are and compile stats on that.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's on horse racing to determine which drugs have secondary impacts, at what level, and set the rules so no one can try to get a backdoor edge. Then it's on vets to make sure the medications are being used for their intended purpose and properly. If you want to say the punishments for therapeutic overages should be harsher, I don't have a huge problem with that as long as horses aren't suffering because we are over the top.

A lot of horseplayers put energy into studying trainers. I'd way rather know who the treating vets are and compile stats on that.

One of the more interesting reforms that PETA (I know, I know) has proposed every so often is just making all vet records of racehorses public. Obviously, they think that it might both stop some doping and also some running of unsound horses, but it could also be helpful to bettors as well.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by zico20

If it was anyone other than Baffert the horse never would have been disqualified.

NONSENSE

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

Betamethasone CANNOT be in the Horse's system...in ANY amount...on Race Day...regardless of how it is administered. There is absolutely no chance of this ruling being overturned. In my opinion...it won't be appealed.

Sharp Post.

The LAST thing on heaven or earth Churchill Downs or the KHRC wanted is to DQ a Kentucky Derby winner because of a bad drug test.

It puts a horrible black mark on the race itself. And tarnishes the reputation of a trainer they exulted as immortal because of his other six victories.

When the test was first sent to the lab it could have been ANY horse who ran in ANY on the 1st Saturday in May.

Same for the split which was sent to California which could have been from ANY horse who competed at ANY track in the United States.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Baffert has probably spent more on legal fees fighting all this than the purse he lost due to the DQ. That amount is not that painful to a man as wealthy as he is. The 3 months is not that significant in the grand scheme of things either unless CA goes along with it. Otherwise he can continue racing his 2yos, older horses, and any horses not quite good enough to make the Triple Crown trail in CA just as he has been. Even if CA suspends him but allows his assistant to take over, it's not that much of a debacle. He can take a few months vacation and then pick up where he left off. The more significant suspension is CD's 2 years because it takes him out of the Derby/Oaks for two years. That takes horses and potentially owners out of his hands (potentially permanently). I'll tell you one thing, it's very unlikely he's going to be as reckless with therapeutics after this.

A commission ruling is different than a "house" ruling.

Other jurisdictions have a reciprocal agreement to honor each others rulings.

Meaning Ca or anywhere else MUST also enforce the 90 day suspension.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I actually wonder if it's possible with modern technology to do rapid urine tests that would allow dopers to be intercepted before the result becomes official. This would obviously cost some amount of money, but it might be worth it, especially since doping owners and trainers are allowed to bet on their horses.

The state of the art machine for testing is called the mass-spectrometer.

It is programmed to test and search for 880 or more illegal substances.

It can only detect substances it's programmed to look for.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

The state of the art machine for testing is called the mass-spectrometer.

It is programmed to test and search for 880 or more illegal substances.

It can only detect substances it's programmed to look for.

Add to that that of the known "blood builders", 3 can be detected. And most leaved the blood system within 3 days, but their effects last for up to two months.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Add to that that of the known "blood builders", 3 can be detected. And most leaved the blood system within 3 days, but their effects last for up to two months.

this game has turned out to be to complex for me!.

i was going to buy a 4 yo never started Florida Bred with 2 partners that toed in. a trainer wants $100 a day in Gulfstream plus all the extras. this post made up my mind. i don't want any part of ownership.