States With Surcharges (restrict bettors)

[pandy]

This is directed to HANA. Pennsylvania passed a new racing bill this week that eliminates their ominous 10% tax. This should allow bettors in the state of PA. to get their betting accounts with rebate ADW's back.

My question to HANA is, do you have a list of all states that have surcharges that restrict bettors from doing business with out of state ADWs?

[DeanT]

That's a good question Bob.

VA was the first, but others have followed suit. There are differing source market fees of a different nature as well. It's all a big morass. Let me have a look to see if I can come up with something. Jeff has been into this more than me (mainly from complaints from internet/ADW bettors)

[pandy]

Thank you.

[Afleet]

Fairmount Park and I believe Trackside in Illinois, have a tax on winning tickets! So after I pay a 20-25% take I get to pay a fee on cashing a ticket-unbelieveable

[pandy]

As it turned out, even though Pa. dropped the 10% charge, they still have other charges that prohibit most ADW's from accepting customers from the state of Pennsylvania. So once again, we see that the state of PA. does not understand the racing business or it's customer base.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Fairmount Park and I believe Trackside in Illinois, have a tax on winning tickets! So after I pay a 20-25% take I get to pay a fee on cashing a ticket-unbelieveable

Yes, OTB in IL is extra 2.5%

Aggravating

At least now I'll feel better that when I hit I cash and walking out of there, not looking back, I think you know what I'm saying.

[Ian Meyers]

Originally Posted by pandy

As it turned out, even though Pa. dropped the 10% charge, they still have other charges that prohibit most ADW's from accepting customers from the state of Pennsylvania. So once again, we see that the state of PA. does not understand the racing business or it's customer base.

Pennsylvania charges non-racetracks $500,000 for an initial ADW license. That's NOT a typo. Annual renewals a much more modest $100k.

I can't imagine why more ADWs haven't signed up for that.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Ian Meyers

Pennsylvania charges non-racetracks $500,000 for an initial ADW license. That's NOT a typo. Annual renewals a much more modest $100k.

I can't imagine why more ADWs haven't signed up for that.

With three thoroughbred tracks and three harness tracks, all with slots, you have to wonder why PA. makes such poor decisions regarding their racing product. The racing commission falls under the umbrella of the Agriculture commission. Perhaps that's the problem. The "commission" clearly doesn't seem to understand the racing business.

[LemonSoupKid]

Does anyone know how much a track (like Gulfstream) or greyhound track, that simulcasts horses as well, charges over the top as surcharge in the state of Florida for winning wagers on a track outside the state?

I saw an old law that stated online that it is "no more than 3%" but was wondering what they typically do --- I'm guessing between 2-3%.

Thanks.

[Zman179]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Does anyone know how much a track (like Gulfstream) or greyhound track, that simulcasts horses as well, charges over the top as surcharge in the state of Florida for winning wagers on a track outside the state?

I saw an old law that stated online that it is "no more than 3%" but was wondering what they typically do --- I'm guessing between 2-3%.

Thanks.

I’ve never been hit with a surcharge in Florida. They pay track prices.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Does anyone know how much a track (like Gulfstream) or greyhound track, that simulcasts horses as well, charges over the top as surcharge in the state of Florida for winning wagers on a track outside the state?

I saw an old law that stated online that it is "no more than 3%" but was wondering what they typically do --- I'm guessing between 2-3%.

Thanks.

Gulfstream doesn't do that. I used to "live there" so I know.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

Gulfstream doesn't do that. I used to "live there" so I know.

how much is the rent? I'm thinking about moving

[Buckeye]

You gotta keep a low profile.

But it can be done!

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Yes, OTB in IL is extra 2.5%

Aggravating

At least now I'll feel better that when I hit I cash and walking out of there, not looking back, I think you know what I'm saying.

IL also dings online accounts, for a "mystery" percentage which varies from nothing at all to 2-3%. About eight years ago I opened tickets with both Twinspires and Xpressbet to have the process explained, as the online and on track payouts were different quite often.

The explanation I received was that "it varies by pool", which I believe translates to sometimes you get dinged, and sometimes someone else in Illinois gets dinged who also cashed the winning bet for that pool. It seems each pool has a quota assigned based on the official 0.75% or whatever, but in practice it's applied in a rather secretive, "let hope the bettor doesn't notice" fashion.

As for the OTBs, the 2.5% surcharge can hit you differently too. I recall one day the Springfield OTB around 2004 or so where I put $100 WP on a 23-1 shot who ran second, paying like $31.20 to place. I got paid $29.80, and due to the breakage and the 50 times I had to pay it, I was shortchanged something like $70 - which is over 5%, and not 2.5%.

But it wasn't until a few years later when the Illinois Racing Racketeers shut down ADW bets just prior Del Mar and Saratoga opening up that I declared a personal boycott. Don't believe I've wagered $100 on Illinois races since, and I'm sure hoping the Breeder's Cup never comes back to Arlington.

[Gorrex]

Not exactly surcharge.. but these do affect bettors as well.

Source Market Fee's are charged to ADWs in addition to Host Fee's and others when someone from a "source market state/area" makes a wager. Even if that wager is on an out of state track. This lowers rewards/rebates for those players and in some cases can cause ADWs to lose money on certain pools for every wager.

Source Market Fee's are split to varying degree among random state funds, breeders, purses, commissions and tracks. Each state is extremely different in allocation.

This is NOT an exhaustive list.. I know I don't have everything.

Statewide Fees
KY Excise Tax 0.5%
Wyoming Source Market Fee(SMF)3%
Montana SMF 4.5%
NY SMF 5%
Maryland SMF 7%
Washington SMF 7%
Idaho SMF 10%
Virginia SMF 11.5%?? (not sure this is still correct.. but its insane)
Arkansas has SMF fee's but I do not know it.



Radius based fees (only certain zipcodes around track)
Ohio 3%
Florida SMF 3.5% Horse, 3% Greyhound
Kentucky SMF 3.5%
California has certain rules based on Geolocation around the tracks.

Indiana is currently implementing a SMF.
Other states are working on it in legislature.