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Old 07-11-2018, 11:43 PM   #46
newtothegame
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Plus, I would add that from a geographic standpoint, I would think it would be in the EU
's interest to protect themselves from big bad Russia as well.....
In the EU, who has the best of it? I mean economy etc etc....
I would think Germany.....
Yet, if not mistaken, Greece and Poland pay more as a portion of their GDP then Germany...lol
So, if we here in the US are the BIG boys and should be responsible, then we should also have the right to tell Germany get off of their asses and start ponying up!!
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
This whole thing is now beginning to backfire with nationalist and European solidarity movements picking up massive steam.
See "Liberals reaping what the sow" thread...the above is more backlash/reaction. As was the election of Donald Trump.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:55 PM   #48
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So our successes should punish us ???
And what would happen IF, we continued down this road and "busted"...?
Who would step up and pay for everyone else???
You really think Germany would???
How do our successes punish us?

This victim complex being perpetuated by some is mindboggling to me.

We have the strongest military in the world. Bar None.

We have the strongest economy in the world. Bar None.

The cost of having those things is it REQUIRES us to invest more in preserving the global order that allows those things to continue.

Now we are intent on tearing that down.

How's nationalism working for closest ally in Europe so far?

Do we really want the largest trading block on the planet to also be militarily autonomous?

Honest questions.

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:57 PM   #49
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See "Liberals reaping what the sow" thread...the above is more backlash/reaction. As was the election of Donald Trump.
Do you want a bunch of Donald Trumps running Europe?

How well is nationalism going for the UK right now?

Growing European Solidarity is a direct repercussion of Trumps election not a by-product of "liberals reaping what they sow."

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:00 AM   #50
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Growing European Solidarity is a direct repercussion of Trumps election not a by-product of "liberal reaping what they sow."
This is not true and you know it. Nationalism has been growing in Europe well before the election of Donald Trump. Brexit was before the election of Donald Trump. Anti-Semitism has been steadily on the rise in Europe (France especially) WELL BEFORE the election of Donald Trump.

None of these things in Europe are because of Donald Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...europe/386279/

The above written WELL BEFORE Donald Trump.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:03 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
How do our successes punish us?

This victim complex being perpetuated by some is mindboggling to me.

We have the strongest military in the world. Bar None.

We have the strongest economy in the world. Bar None.

The cost of having those things is it REQUIRES us to invest more in preserving the global order that allows those things to continue.

Now we are intent on tearing that down.

How's nationalism working for closest ally in Europe so far?

Do we really want the largest trading block on the planet to also be militarily autonomous?

Honest questions.
Never said tearing it down!! Like I previously said, you can pick and choose what you wish to reply to. But, if youre going to reply to me, use my words and not what you wish to insert.

All trump has asked for if them to pay what they agreed to. If not mistaken, that's 2% of their gdp. Hell, as it stands now, they wont even be there by the year 2024.


You know its bad when Greece and Poland are paying more then Germany and you'e here trying to say we should just go along to get along ;lol
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:05 AM   #52
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This is not true and you know it. Nationalism has been growing in Europe well before the election of Donald Trump. Brexit was before the election of Donald Trump. Anti-Semitism has been steadily on the rise in Europe (France especially) WELL BEFORE the election of Donald Trump.

None of these things in Europe are because of Donald Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...europe/386279/

The above written WELL BEFORE Donald Trump.
Nonsense nationalism and European Solidarity are two completely DIFFERENT things.

Polar opposite actually.

How many Brexits and Greek Referendums are we seeing now? Post Trump.

How did those work out for them?

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 AM   #53
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Never said tearing it down!! Like I previously said, you can pick and choose what you wish to reply to. But, if youre going to reply to me, use my words and not what you wish to insert.

All trump has asked for if them to pay what they agreed to. If not mistaken, that's 2% of their gdp. Hell, as it stands now, they wont even be there by the year 2024.


You know its bad when Greece and Poland are paying more then Germany and you'e here trying to say we should just go along to get along ;lol
Fine...

Name one member that didn't sign the 2014 spending referendum?

THEN

Name one member who hasn't increased spending annually since?

Then tell me why any of this necessary.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
Fine...

Name one member that didn't sign the 2014 spending referendum?

THEN

Name one member who hasn't increased spending annually since?

Then tell me why any of this necessary.
So you think German can increase by say ten dollars a year (as long as it coincides with increases of GDP) and its ok ??? Even if Greece and much smaller countries are paying their agreed to amounts? lmao
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:20 AM   #55
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So you think German can increase by say ten dollars a year (as long as it coincides with increases of GDP) and its ok ??? Even if Greece and much smaller countries are paying their agreed to amounts? lmao
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You're dodging.

Germany is increasing spending to its 2% goal just like all the other countries that signed to the 2014 agreement.

I'm not in the mood to play semantics or word games...

I've provided a reason why we should pay more militarily than the rest of the world. Ignored.

Asked directly if we really want a militarily autonomous Europe. Ignored.

Asked somewhat indirectly if the benefit of having leverage by providing defense to the largest (second? Its close) economy in the world is a benefit to us. Ignored.

Asked you to name one member who didn't agree to 2% in 2014. Ignored.

Asked you to name one country who hasn't increased spending since 2014. Ignored.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:28 AM   #56
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You're dodging.

Germany is increasing spending to its 2% goal just like all the other countries that signed to the 2014 agreement.

I'm not in the mood to play semantics or word games...

I've provided a reason why we should pay more militarily than the rest of the world. Ignored. Wasn't ignored, again you chose not to read my post.

Asked directly if we really want a militarily autonomous Europe. Ignored.
Hell, they apparently don't even want to pay their share so how the hell are they gonna be Autonomous? Especially when they get so much of their needed fue/from Russia???

Asked somewhat indirectly if the benefit of having leverage by providing defense to the largest (second? Its close) economy in the world is a benefit to us. Ignored. Again, you can talk about benefits and I would say the benefits aren't nearly as great as you think. If we were to pull out, which by the way I haven't said. Do you really think Russia would run wild over them all?? Come on, they USE us for all its worth.

Asked you to name one member who didn't agree to 2% in 2014. Nope, again you failed to read. I said basically an agreement is worthless if it is signed but ignored. Germany WILL NOT be near their agreed 2% until like 2024.

Asked you to name one country who hasn't increased spending since 2014. Ignored.
Again, you say its ignored, you just don't like the answers...oh ^%%^ well!
I can increase spending so minimally so as to never get there (but I am still increasing)
You say we are the BIG boys on the block, yet you don't think that entitles us to lay down some rules??? But it does REQUIRE us to pay the most and protect everyone else??? That's some hillarious chit right there
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:34 AM   #57
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Again, you say its ignored, you just don't like the answers...oh ^%%^ well!
I can increase spending so minimally so as to never get there (but I am still increasing)
You say we are the BIG boys on the block, yet you don't think that entitles us to lay down some rules??? But it does REQUIRE us to pay the most and protect everyone else??? That's some hillarious chit right there
No... you haven't answered a damn one.

Finally... we laid down the rules. Increase spending to 2% GDP.

It was agreed to.

Finally what the hell do you mean protect everyone else? We protect them because it's in OUR interest to protect them both financially and geopolitically.

No other #$%*ing reason.

Why did we protect Saudi Arabia and liberate Kuwait? Because were such humanitarians? #$%^ no.

Because it was in our interest financially and geopolitically.

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:38 AM   #58
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Well then , let's strike deal with RUSSIA and take what we both want to from Europe. Why should be always be on the side of the helpless cowards?
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 AM   #59
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No... you haven't answered a damn one.

Finally... we laid down the rules. Increase spending to 2% GDP.

It was agreed to.

Finally what the hell do you mean protect everyone else? We protect them because it's in OUR interest to protect them both financially and geopolitically.

No other #$%*ing reason.

Why did we protect Saudi Arabia and liberate Kuwait? Because were such humanitarians? #$%^ no.

Because it was in our interest financially and geopolitically.
As I said "agreements are nothing" .
Iran says its not building nukes either.....

I agree that we have a geopolitical interest. However, at what cost???
Because of geographical location, I would think that the EU (nato allies) have a much greater interest in protecting their own asses and should gladly pay their 2% while we are at some 3.5%.
For every year they don't, I would suggest to Trump to reduce our spending by the same amounts they come up short of theirs!! Bet they would get on board then!! If they don't, then we just drop to two percent and stay there!
This year our GDP is something like 18.6 TRILLION! Saving 1.5% of that could go a long way towards helping our own problems!
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:48 AM   #60
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Well then , let's strike deal with RUSSIA and take what we both want to from Europe. Why should be always be on the side of the helpless cowards?


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