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Old 09-16-2018, 11:49 AM   #31
Robert Fischer
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Field size - At least at my favorite track, the track at which I play most of my bankroll, - 'NYRA', a good portion of the smaller fields are done on purpose.


Not saying that NYRA necessarily in all cases has said "let's build a 6 horse race! *rubs palms together in a Machiavellian caricature* muhahahahaha*, but as far as either building a 6 horse race or 'passing' and carding one less race? - Yes, then they are purposely choosing the 6 horse field. There's become a concession or if not an open concession, - a 'procession' that presents a 6 horse field with a straight face.

There are also enough times that the leading trainers have multiple horses within those 6 horse fields.

An easy example to remember was the Alydar Stakes at Saratoga this summer. What an UGLY race that was on paper. You have this FAKE $100K Blacktype Restricted-Stakes. Supposedly 17 nominations...
And you somehow end up with 2 Pletchers and 2 Browns in a 5 horse field. Were the other nominators idiots? Were they also 80% Brown/Pletcher/SameOwners ? Were they entered in better races? You'd think some more OC type horses would've ventured up in class to face 6 or 7 or 8 insider top trainers in some fake restricted stakes, right? Regardless, then there were five... The race is slightly easier to remember than a post-ambien'd cocktail only because the 5th horse; REALM, (the longest-shot-on-the-board for Tagg/Alvarado) won as a logical contender to reward the Handicappers, while the Public for some reason placed both Browns and both Pletchers on a pedestal. This tiny betting coup (can a small % of the pools that wasn't crushed, but merely covered by the wiseguys even be properly attributed 'coup'?) was the only thing that saved the race from being the forgotten vomit remnants of an intentionally-carded short field.

This ugly specific example aside, there were a lot of races that seemed to be fielded with at the very least - 'input' - from Trainers and Owners and which resulted in inadequate fields of 7,6, or less.

Not only do these garbage insider races pay a favor forward to the trainers and owners who hold such a strong market position, but they also funnel money into the PICK-5 and/or make the PICK-5 more playable. Whether this is a smart idea on the part of NYRA to boost their growing NYRA-BETS LATE PICK-5, and cater to the inputs/needs of their big P5 clientele while at the same time catering to their supertrainers/owners, or whether this was just a coincidence that happened to do so, - either way- , it worked out well for them. Expect to see more of the same, unless they are just random lucky zombies.

If you are a pick-3 player, or a spot player looking for playable races, you may be revolted at some of these 6 horse or 5 horse races, but they align with the incentives of the trainers/owners/p5-players.

Expect to see more of the same.
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 09-16-2018 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:29 PM   #32
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I feel your pain Zippy. I like the turf races the best and it sucks to pour over pps the night before only to see it go poof. But scratches have always been part of the package. Seabiscuit, for example, was routinely scratched on any type of wet surface.
I remember Leroy Jolley (Foolish Pleasure, Genuine Risk, General Assembly, Manilla) also would scratch his horses if there was any kind of moisture in the track.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:05 PM   #33
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The reason why many things about the game that are continuously complained about never change for the better (or bettor) is because there’s no real unity among the betting population. Has there ever been a suggestion for a set of wagering rules that ALL bettors should follow so that together their voices would be heard based on the support they provide in form of the volume of betting dollars. Sure sounds like a pipe dream. Right!?
I have handicapped cards with you in the past, on this forum. We, as handicappers have a completely different styles or methods. We end up on the same horses once in a while, other times we see the races completely different. We would show the same differences of opinion on if a race should be bet or not. So the problem of having a united front as players becomes simple, we all have our own opinion and act accordingly. That said, I agree with you 100%, a united front as players would help send a very strong message to the tracks and horsemen. If a united front could be organized, but that is a big if.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:24 AM   #34
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It gets old fast, handicapping a couple of cards til the wee hours, then come an hour before post time, half the cards are scratched and 60% of the races are switched to the main track.

That is when Netflicks starts to look better than racing.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:26 AM   #35
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If a united front could be organized, but that is a big if.
Never happen. Even if it did, the Whales would still trump us all.
Racing here is not for players any more. It is for whales and picnicning families.

Care for a sandwich?
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:56 AM   #36
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I remember Leroy Jolley (Foolish Pleasure, Genuine Risk, General Assembly, Manilla) also would scratch his horses if there was any kind of moisture in the track.
I remember Riva Ridge couldn't run if someone so much as spit on the track.
Absolutely floundered in the sloppy going in the Preakness.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:58 AM   #37
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It gets old fast, handicapping a couple of cards til the wee hours, then come an hour before post time, half the cards are scratched and 60% of the races are switched to the main track.

That is when Netflicks starts to look better than racing.
It's the 21st-century version of our favorite game. We have no idea as we handicap the night before, what the fields will look like at race-time. And we don't know as we place our wagers, what the eventual payoff will be...should we be fortunate enough to hold a winning ticket.

And the industry wonders why our interest in the game is in a perpetual state of decline.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:00 AM   #38
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I think he is"related" to EMDME...same nonsense, and a long time troll.
Nah, I don't think so. Hasn't said anything about the Ortiz brothers.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:27 PM   #39
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Never happen. Even if it did, the Whales would still trump us all.
Racing here is not for players any more. It is for whales and picnicning families.

Care for a sandwich?
Meatloaf sandwich with a little cream cheese, and a cold Bud. If you happen to forget the sandwich order, just remember the beer.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:55 PM   #40
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LAST EXIT BEFORE TROLL
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:00 PM   #41
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The trainers are entitled to scratch their grass horses when the race moves off the turf...but the racetrack should also be entitled to drastically reduce the size of the race-purse...when the race is scratched down to a ridiculous number of starters. When a field of twelve horses is downsized to four...then a comparative reduction of the purse should also come into effect...IMO.
I would tend to agree. However, the surface switch is not necessarily the fault of the owners/trainer of the entrant. So if Mrts Nature decides today is "no fund day" , then why punish the connections?
Its an interesting concept though..
Now, a few years ago NYRA had a tiered purse structure for some races. If the number of starters was a certain amount or over, the purse would be paid as advertised. If fewer than that certain amount went, the advertised purse was lower.
This encouraged trainers to not only enter their horses, but to actually start them.
And I believe it cut down on "warehousing" of horses.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #42
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The horses should be allowed to scratch but how is it unfair to the bettors?
Because the surface change may compromise the horse's ability to perform and thus bettors with less information or a lower level of expertise, would be betting on a horse or horses that have little chance of performing their best.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:24 PM   #43
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The sad fact is that trainers/owners relish short fields as they provide an easier path to purse money. While it might be short sighted, they would rather compete in a small field vs a highly competitive 12 horse field. At the same time horseman realize that betting is proportionately higher as field size increases.

But IMO, the real culprit in short fields is due to a shortage of horses. Fewer horses are being bred. According to Jockey club stats, slightly more than 35,000 foals were registered in 2008. In 2018 about 22,000 foals were registered. Fewer horses available. The timing of this trend does coincide with the proliferation of racinos.

While many other factors come into play here, fewer available horses pose a big problem for this industry.

TonyK
BINGO!....Fewer foals means fewer runners.
And here we go with the contraction argument.
There are two diametrically opposed camps in this vein. Those that see the inevitability of fewer racing facilities and those who oppose this notion based on their perception of having fewer wagering opportunities.
The bottom line here is with 38% fewer registered foals than just ten years ago, one would have to think there should be a proportionate number of races carded. 38% fewer races.
Those wanting the same number of wagering opps want the same sized bucket of water. However, there is less water in the bucket. Who cares if the bucket is the same size? It is the amount of water in the bucket that matters.
In order to have a full bucket, the size of the bucket must shrink.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:47 PM   #44
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It rains in Europe all the time and they still run turf races. Maybe it's because they know how to keep a turf course well drained.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:08 PM   #45
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Because the surface change may compromise the horse's ability to perform and thus bettors with less information or a lower level of expertise, would be betting on a horse or horses that have little chance of performing their best.
So I guess any race with a first-time starter is unfair to the bettors, as well as any race with a horse trying Turf for the first time or stretching out in distance for the first time.
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