Religion II

[hcap]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Intentionality = goal directed behavior, teleology...in my understanding, philosophically rejected by evolutionists opposing Paley.

Shapiro's "natural genetic engineering"= mutations directed (read-write) by cell activity rather than by accident (read-only, passive)...forgive my allowing Shapiro to state such...#4 from list suffices...

https://www.google.com/search?ei=Z1J...30.PTQRKtp1-jQ

I will asdmit Shapiro's concepts are intriguing, but he has not replaced natural selection with "intelligent DNA". Nor has his theories redone mainstream evolutionary theory.

James Shapiro gets evolution wrong again
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...n-wrong-again/

...Yes, these new discoveries are exciting, but they have absolutely no bearing on two issues: 1) whether natural selection acts on these new bits of the genome, and 2) whether natural selection is the primary process that produces “adaptations” in organisms. After all, all these units of the genome are still bits of DNA residing within the genome (usually on chromosomes), and therefore must obey the laws of population genetics. And those laws say that if a bit of DNA helps the organisms’s reproduction, it proliferates. If it hurts the organisms’s reproduction, it gets expunged from the population. That’s natural selection. Ergo, all of those genomic things that regulate other genes are subject to natural selection (and, of course, genetic drift).

In fact, there’s little doubt (except in the mind of contrarians like Shapiro) that the mechanisms of gene regulation themselves evolved by natural selection.
.......................................
This is the line that severely cast doubt on Shapiro.

....the mechanisms of gene regulation themselves evolved by natural selection.

[hcap]

And the assumption of intelligent genes and DNA does very little to explain life organizing into more and more evolved forms from raw materials BEFORE THE ADVENT OF genes and DNA

Current theory estimates billions of yeas for life to form from chemicals into basic amino acids. No room for intelligent anything without a certain degree of organization and complexity needed fopr much later formed Shapiro's smart self repairing and goal oriented DNA and genomes. At least biologically speaking.

Postulate as many ghosts in the machine as you wish,

but ..............??????

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Hey bunky, you said.....
The advent of life from non life is a topic that cast doubt on god being involved and although Darwin's evolutionary theory was not, requires one to consider accident over billions of years as a viable alternative explanation.

You could have waxed less verbose and simply said that you don't know how chemicals came into existence.

By the way, your dynamic duo gods Time and Chance have no causal power.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You could have waxed less verbose and simply said that you don't know how chemicals came into existence.

By the way, your dynamic duo gods Time and Chance have no causal power.

We were speaking of how life came into existence.

You babbled questioning evolution.

What else can evolution be? Something evolved from Nothing!? Nothing created Something, did it?

Not the universe.

I already addressed that it may be unknown. Taking G-d's name in vain when we can not understand G-d very well. Ineffable....

Tathata, which means "suchness" or "thusness," is a word sometimes used primarily in Mahayana Buddhism to mean "reality," or the way things really are. It's understood that the true nature of reality is ineffable, beyond description and conceptualization.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

We were speaking of how life came into existence.

You babbled questioning evolution.
Not the universe.

I already addressed that it may be unknown. Taking G-d's name in vain when we can not understand G-d very well. Ineffable....

Tathata, which means "suchness" or "thusness," is a word sometimes used primarily in Mahayana Buddhism to mean "reality," or the way things really are. It's understood that the true nature of reality is ineffable, beyond description and conceptualization.

I was speaking about how ANYTHING came into existence in the first place.

So, let's retrace our steps. You claim life came into existence by chemicals reacting, I suppose? So...my question is...from whence come the chemicals?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I was speaking about how ANYTHING came into existence in the first place.

So, let's retrace our steps. You claim life came into existence by chemicals reacting, I suppose? So...my question is...from whence come the chemicals?

I answered you. I d-n't k-ow and either do you.

Same as claiming to know G-d's mind which you go on and on about.

Tathata, which means "suchness" or "thusness," is a word sometimes used primarily in Mahayana Buddhism to mean "reality," or the way things really are. It's understood that the true nature of reality is ineffable, beyond description and conceptualization.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I answered you. I d-n't k-ow and either do you.

I know misery loves company, but you can't infect me with your wanton, wilful, dark ignorance. I know you DON'T KNOW! Nor does Actor or any other atheistic materialist on this thread.

But..I do know that Something cannot come from Nothing. And I also know that logically speaking, Something can be created from Nothing by Something. Since Naturalism is an incoherent Dead End Street, there is only one other option -- Supernaturalism.

Have a nice evening.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Chemicals are SOMETHING.

Now...where did they come from?

Do you want me to explain it to you? If I did would you even try to understand?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Do you want me to explain it to you? If I did would you even try to understand?

Yeah...can you do that in layman's terms in a paragraph or two?

And are you prepared to tell us what caused the cause(s) of the chemicals?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...

You do! Great!

Originally Posted by boxcar

...can you do that in layman's terms in a paragraph or two?

Sorry. You're going to have to work at it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

And are you prepared to tell us what caused the cause(s) of the chemicals?

All in due time. First things first.

[thaskalos]

I propose that we change the title of this thread to something more appropriate...like "The Science of Religion".

[Actor]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I propose that we change the title of this thread to something more appropriate...like "The Science of Religion".

Or just start another thread.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I propose that we change the title of this thread to something more appropriate...like "The Science of Religion".

Depends on whether you see the differences, not the similarities.

[hcap]

And then there is......

[hcap]

Alan Wilson Watts (1915–1973) was a British-American philosopher who interpreted and popularized Eastern philosophy for a Western audience.

Words.......

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