Match Up book

[Tom]

Acutally, the tandem idea was pretty loose - several ways to handle them.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Tom

Acutally, the tandem idea was pretty loose - several ways to handle them.

I heard the story about Bo Bo and his theory on boxing differently as it applied to horses. "I ain't goin' in there to lose Howard!"

[Tom]

What are you talking about?

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Tom

What are you talking about?

The genesis of the tandem came from Sartin's friend, a middleweight boxer (Bo Bo Olson as I seem to recall his name was) who noticed that various members of the middleweight division kept taking turns beating one another. He noted that the loser would change the way he fought the winner next time they boxed, but the winner would do things exactly the same way.

The idea was then transfered to horses: When two horses met the second time, the loser would change tactics and the winner would do the same thing, giving a little advantage to the loser.

[Wiseguy]

Well, I'm new to using most Match Up methods but I use Tandems mostly for eliminating horses. Sometimes all the horses in the Tandem can be tossed when they won't meet today's pace. Other times some of the horses can be eliminated just because they were not able to handle the pace of the Tandem race and today's race will be of similar, or faster, pace. That's my take anyhow.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy

Well, I'm new to using most Match Up methods but I use Tandems mostly for eliminating horses. Sometimes all the horses in the Tandem can be tossed when they won't meet today's pace. Other times some of the horses can be eliminated just because they were not able to handle the pace of the Tandem race and today's race will be of similar, or faster, pace. That's my take anyhow.

And then you have Sample error. You have to take multiple examples of a horse's reaction to the pace or you get skewed results.

Imagine I were to watch Michael Jordan on a night he had the flu. What might my reactions be?

If I saw him 5 or 6 times that simple sample error view would disappear.

[banacek]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Imagine I were to watch Michael Jordan on a night he had the flu. What might my reactions be?

Agreed about the sample error, but you might want to use someone beside MJ as an example.

Game 5 - 1997 Finals - "The Flu Game"

Going 13-27 (modest by MJ's standards) and at times, about to pass out, MJ stuck through and came up with the clutch FT, clutch rebound and of course, the famous clutch trey-winner. Is it possible to have more drama? MJ stated that he still has trouble remembering the whole game because of his condition. He said, "I almost died playing that game."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLQl7UJOYUs

[Wiseguy]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

And then you have Sample error. You have to take multiple examples of a horse's reaction to the pace or you get skewed results.

Imagine I were to watch Michael Jordan on a night he had the flu. What might my reactions be?

If I saw him 5 or 6 times that simple sample error view would disappear.

That's a good point. One which I've actually thought of before. What I do as a "safety net" is to always consider the horse's entire PP's before elimination. If I think the Tandem race was an aberration I leave the horse in "for now."

[shoelessjoe]

Im pretty sure Ray Taulbot wrote about tandems long before Doc Sartin.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

The genesis of the tandem came from Sartin's friend, a middleweight boxer....

Thanks, I vaugley remember that now that you mention it.

[First_Place]

46zilzal said:

"You should challenge everything you learn and OFTEN, particularly material that is 10 years old or more."

A more apt term would be to validate "everything you learn" via personal experimentation (i.e. handicapping races).

Regards,

FP

[First_Place]

njcurveball burped:

"Funny I read it once and totally understood what he was talking about. I then knew I would retain all of the concepts for the rest of my life and tossed the book in the trash! "

Ye fool, you could have sold it on eBay and got a pretty penny for it! Ha-ha...dumbass!

FP

p.s. Btw, you're NOT funny at all (wise-ASS). I take exception to your not-so-subtle attempt to "dis" The HAT!

[njcurveball]

Originally Posted by First_Place

I take exception to your not-so-subtle attempt to "dis" The HAT!

No disrepect to the Hat, who is an Icon in this game. I met the man in Baltimore and he totally gained my respect through his words and deeds.

[shanta]

Folks here are confusing Howard Sartin/Pirco's tandem concepts with Jim Bradshaw's treatment of them.

They are 2 totally DIFFERENT concepts I assure you.

Sartin/Pirco's application and dealing with them are what is being written about here. All well and good. It IS basically a rule based concept.

Jim Bradshaw:
1) Deals with them on an INDIVIDUAL race by race and horse by horse analysis of whether TODAY'S matchup of these tandem and the OTHER horses in the race might reverse the outcome. He has NO rules regarding what he will do with the horses in these races.

2) Sometimes will use tandem races to separate the final 2 contenders when they have faced each other before. He WILL focus on the tandem finish when the pace of race and mix of both early and other than early horses match what he expects today.

Hope this clears up some things for folks with open minds. The Matchup2 book has sold out so I am out of this thread man.

I'll leave you with this Cherokee saying that Hat laid on me a year ago and is helping change my view of both people and life:

"Listen or your tongue will make you deaf"

[WJ47]

Will more copies of this book ever be published? I've read in this thread that only 100 copies were printed and sold. That is a really small print run. I have a copy of this book, but a relative would like one and I'm not going to part with mine. I've only briefly paged through it as I go to college full-time and haven't had the time to put the plan in action. I thought it looked real good.