Monmouth Park back to square one!

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by toussaud

I'm not saying tom isn't correct, I'm saying that you never put yourself in a position to be at the mercy of the government in the first place.

In this case, considering the government owns the ground and runs the meeting, that was sort of impossible, wasn't it? Whatever flaws the horsemen have as a group, they met all the requirements the governor laid out and then the bar was raised.

Look, for all the nonsense posted in this thread by some, the fact is, the casinos run things. Doesn't matter who the governor is or what party. Right now, the casinos are down 25% from a few years ago and are taking a beating, despite all the tax breaks, roads built right to their doors, etc. So, the current goal of the casinos is to shut down the racetracks so they can build their own casinos on that property to try to recover some of their massive losses to the PA casinos. Christie is on board with this plan. That's what is happening, but for political and legal reasons the governor and his lackeys pretend otherwise.

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by alhattab

I sent this email to Bob Jordan of the Asbury Park Press who has been reporting on this topic

Bob- Why does it seem that nobody is calling out Christie on what could possibly be some unethical dealings regarding the Monmouth Park lease? I have never heard him deny that the state initially agreed to award the thoroughbred horsemen the Meadowlands dates. It seems reneging on this aspect of the agreement caused the deal to collapse. There's more to the Meadowlands dates than just racing dates. There is a tie in with simulcast revenues and potentially other gaming revenues if gaming expanded to Meadowlands. I was reminded that there is a tie in between Jeff Gural and Cantor Gaming, and Christie's wife I believe is with Cantor Fitzgerald. Someone like you should look into this as I'm sure you, like me, don't believe in coincidences.




Thanks for your continued reporting on this topic

Good, let's see if he writes about it, I have never seen in it a story by the "legitimate" press, only on blogs. But it's definitely true.

[rwryley]

I agree that subsidies should be eliminated. But, the only way to do it is to let the tracks - whether they are run by the state or private companies - have slots and other gambling. New Jersey should at least put its tracks in a position to compete with states that are self-subsidizing racing purses with other gambling revenue.

[Robert Goren]

The casino stuff is a red herring. The horsemen want a long meet with a subsidy. The governor doesn't want to give them a subsidy. That's pretty much it. Everything else is bull crap.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by rwryley

I agree that subsidies should be eliminated. But, the only way to do it is to let the tracks - whether they are run by the state or private companies - have slots and other gambling. New Jersey should at least put its tracks in a position to compete with states that are self-subsidizing racing purses with other gambling revenue.

Why? The only thing the racinos are competing for is cheap horses by having higher purses. If MP offers higher purses, all they are doing is getting a few horses that would have run in PRX. MP's gain is PRX's loss. How is that helping the sport?

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by toussaud

i would think it's in the publics best interest to not use taxpayer money to fund a gambling industry that cannot support itself.

you can't at one end of the spectrum bark at people getting on the wall street guys saying "hey buddy that's how capitalism works" then at the other end, say that funding the horse racing industry in NJ is in the best interest of the people.

.

It is in the public's best interest in NJ. I'll explain why. NJ residents have paid a bundle over the last 50+ years to preserve open land. Open Space ballot referendums pass like clockwork here because we are so densely populated. Check out this article I found from 2009:
______________________________

With no public and little political opposition, the Senate Environment Committee Thursday voted 4-1 in favor of legislation that would ask voters to approve a $600 million bond referendum on the Nov. 3 general election ballot for open space, farmland and historic preservation.
The referendum, which proposes the second largest bond issue in state history, was increased from the initially proposed amount of $300 million.
The measure, S-1858, and three other bills that allocate up to $66 million from the Garden State Preservation Trust for land and historic preservation were approved without public opposition within five minutes of the committee meetings opening gavel.

The Republican legislators on the panel, Sen. Christopher "Kip'' Bateman (R-Somerset) and Sen. Andrew Ciesla (R-Ocean), called for reducing the referendum amount to $300 million but were voted down 3-2. They then joined in unanimously approving the $600 million figure.

link: http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/sta...-moves-forward
______________________________________


Apparently, the amount was reduced to $400M before it went on the ballot. Probably because in 2009 the recession was really bad. Did the people of NJ pass it? Yes we did.

_______________________________________

Nov. 3, 2009, TRENTON, NJ -- Yesterday New Jersey voted Yes to continue investing in preserving our land, water and history for the benefit of citizens today, and for future generations. The majority of voters, 52% to 48%, voted to continue funding to the state's highly successful preservation programs. Funding for the Green Acres Program, the Farmland Preservation Program, and the NJ Historic Trust will now continue for the next two years, giving New Jersey time to identify a long-term funding source for these programs.

In the meantime, the $400 million in approved funding will....

Link: http://www.njkeepitgreen.org/documen...SE_11-3-09.pdf
_________________________________


Here's the way it is in our small and densely populated state, Toussaud. Down the line we can pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes every few years to try to buy some of the land that horse farms occupy so beautifully today because of the horseracing industry in this state or we can just save a ton of money and a bundle of open space by subsidizing the NJ horseracing industry.

It's a no-brainer if you care about quality of life, saving taxpayers a fortune, and/or the NJ horseracing industry.

[NJ Stinks]

Let's get up-to-date with our illustrious governor. Here's an article from last August where Christie signs a bill and tells us how committed he is to open space in NJ. Read this and tell me Christie is thinking clearly when he says the taxpayers of NJ cannot afford nor should they subsidize the thoroughbred industry here in any way, shape, or form.
_________________________________

Governor Christie Builds on Commitment to Protect New Jersey’s Environment, Signs Legislation to Protect Open Space and Recreational Development in the Garden State

• Wednesday, August 3, 2011

$157 Million Made Available for Green Acres Projects Including Highlands, Barnegat Bay and Urban Waterfronts


Trenton, NJ – Further demonstrating his commitment to the environment and an improved quality of life for Garden State residents, Governor Chris Christie today signed a series of bills that protects Green Acres open-space acquisition and recreational development throughout the state. The legislation also makes available $157 million for projects in all of New Jersey’s 21 counties including preservation projects in the Highlands, the Barnegat Bay watershed, and urban waterfronts.
“I am pleased to sign legislation today that reaffirms my Administration’s commitment to protecting New Jersey's open spaces and natural resources,” said Governor Chris Christie. “These bills continue the Garden State’s proud tradition as a nationally recognized leader in land conservation efforts and will further assist Commissioner Martin and the DEP to fund a wide variety of worthy projects critical to sustaining a high quality of life in the nation's most densely populated state."

link: http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news.../20110803.html

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The casino stuff is a red herring. The horsemen want a long meet with a subsidy. The governor doesn't want to give them a subsidy. That's pretty much it. Everything else is bull crap.

Then why is he continually lying about the whole thing? His word is worthless. The man is a bought and paid for liar. Thousands of jobs, at the minimum are at stake.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Tom

Then why is he continually lying about the whole thing? His word is worthless. The man is a bought and paid for liar. Thousands of jobs, at the minimum are at stake.

So you support using tax money to keep a race track open? That is what we are talking here. Whether Christi is lying or not is beside the point. In order for MP to be open next year, the taxpayers in NJ are going to have pony up. It really is that simple.

[Robert Goren]

There are not 1,000s of job at stake here. The horse care related jobs will just move to another race track. There a few race track jobs like cashiers and waitress job that will be lost. Maybe few hundred at most and many are part time with limited benefits. Taxpayer money can be better spent to produce better jobs than those.

[Tom]

No, Bobby, there are thousands of other jobs that support racing. Vets, medicines, transportation, feed.......but bottom line is all the jobs will leave the state of disappear. Christi repeatedly has lied about the economic impact racing has on the state.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Tom

No, Bobby, there are thousands of other jobs that support racing. Vets, medicines, transportation, feed.......but bottom line is all the jobs will leave the state of disappear. Christi repeatedly has lied about the economic impact racing has on the state.

Every 'economic impact' statement I've ever seen has exaggerated things to puff up the folks who commissioned it. Heck, that's what they're paying for.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

So you support using tax money to keep a race track open? That is what we are talking here. Whether Christi is lying or not is beside the point. In order for MP to be open next year, the taxpayers in NJ are going to have pony up. It really is that simple.

Wrong again! The actual debate is why is Atlantic City getting huge tax concessions while the horse racing industry is being put on DNR? The fact that a racino is needed to support the purse structures in NJ to make it competitive with the surrounding states especially NY and Pa is what is at stake here. The "don't put slots at the racetracks" casino pay out is over and now it is time to implement a fair sytem by which the casinos and racetracks can work together and serve the entire state not just Atlantic City which has become obselete. One of the most desirous pieces of real estate in this country sits at the Meadowlands, due to corruption and greed it has remained under developed to protect the AC casinos and in turn has now hurt them as much as the racing industry. The solution is to amend the gaming laws as they are now as equally as obselete as AC to include casino expansion to northern NJ. Here is a brief portion of an article that came out last year.
Two reports by Christiansen Capital Advisors, commissioned by the New Jersey Department of Treasury, recommended the installation of slot machines at the Meadowlands. The reports stated that 5,000 machines at the Meadowlands would produce $750 million annually and that 10,000 machines would produce $1.5 billion annually. The same study suggested that 2,100 slots at the Meadowlands would reduce Atlantic City gross gaming revenue by a mere .01 percent.



Senator Sean Kean recently said on the New Jersey Senate floor "if it (a Racino at the Meadowlands) were put to a vote we'd probably get a majority, if not a super-majority (in support), to save horse racing in the state of New Jersey." Despite the overwhelming financial benefits flowing from such an arrangement, the Hanson Report summarily dismisses the installation of Video Lottery Terminals, slot machines or a gaming casino in the Meadowlands.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Wrong again! The actual debate is why is Atlantic City getting huge tax concessions while the horse racing industry is being put on DNR? The fact that a racino is needed to support the purse structures in NJ to make it competitive with the surrounding states especially NY and Pa is what is at stake here. The "don't put slots at the racetracks" casino pay out is over and now it is time to implement a fair sytem by which the casinos and racetracks can work together and serve the entire state not just Atlantic City which has become obselete. One of the most desirous pieces of real estate in this country sits at the Meadowlands, due to corruption and greed it has remained under developed to protect the AC casinos and in turn has now hurt them as much as the racing industry. The solution is to amend the gaming laws as they are now as equally as obselete as AC to include casino expansion to northern NJ. Here is a brief portion of an article that came out last year.
Two reports by Christiansen Capital Advisors, commissioned by the New Jersey Department of Treasury, recommended the installation of slot machines at the Meadowlands. The reports stated that 5,000 machines at the Meadowlands would produce $750 million annually and that 10,000 machines would produce $1.5 billion annually. The same study suggested that 2,100 slots at the Meadowlands would reduce Atlantic City gross gaming revenue by a mere .01 percent.



Senator Sean Kean recently said on the New Jersey Senate floor "if it (a Racino at the Meadowlands) were put to a vote we'd probably get a majority, if not a super-majority (in support), to save horse racing in the state of New Jersey." Despite the overwhelming financial benefits flowing from such an arrangement, the Hanson Report summarily dismisses the installation of Video Lottery Terminals, slot machines or a gaming casino in the Meadowlands.

We can sum up this sad situation with just two words "political corruption".

________
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

Competative for what? Since when has Parx or Penn National ever competed with anybody for the horse race bettor's buck?