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Old 02-26-2010, 10:20 PM   #16
Stillriledup
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Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com
Husbands is going to have to prove he lost business and his reputation got tarnished because of the suspension.

Curious. What was Husbands record in 2008 vs. 2009? I believe he started late, not because of the suspension, but because of weight I think, and he also was involved in an accident in the early half of the year (not sure how much time he missed).

You're right, he's going to have to prove it. This will be an interesting case to see what burden of proof he has to show.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:32 PM   #17
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He gets a trainer or two to explain the risk of using an accused stiff, it could be a slam dunk......
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:36 PM   #18
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He gets a trainer or two to explain the risk of using an accused stiff, it could be a slam dunk......
The reality is that he is a Toronto based jockey, and the suspension occurred during the offseason for the most part.
It was reversed, but it doesn't change the video evidence of the ride which makes people question whether he should have been exonerated.
Now, he does ride in the winter, but a good lawyer would compare his mounts in the offseason at the beginning of 2008 vs. the beginning of 2009. Plus, you need to take into account he is one year older, and riders who hit 40 usually see their mounts decline a bit each year.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:40 PM   #19
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Somebody out there thinks he has a case...or he is without representation.
His own trainer stood up and admitted he told him not to use the stick. Horsemen know that some horses WILL back up when stuck......Its time to decide the cost of litigation vs defending the charges, and pay the lesser amount imo.
The fact that he brought suit against them will not enhance his reputation any further...pay him and move forwards.

Last edited by Hanover1; 02-26-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hanover1
Somebody out there thinks he has a case...or he is without representation.
His own trainer stood up and admitted he told him not to use the stick. Horsemen know that some horses WILL back up when stuck......Its time to decide the cost of litigation vs defending the charges, and pay the lesser amount imo.
The fact that he brought suit against them will not enhance his reputation any further...pay him and move forwards.
I watched Bug's Boys best performances this year, and he was whipped in each and every one of them.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:48 PM   #21
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I watched Bug's Boys best performances this year, and he was whipped in each and every one of them.
Easy enough....followed instructions......
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:44 PM   #22
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Easy enough....followed instructions......
Hanover1, I know from previous posts that you are a trainer...do you not see how detrimental to the integrity of this game it is, when trainers give instructions to jockeys to lose, even when they are on the best horse, as was clearly the case in this race? Don't you think the horseplayers job is hard enough without thieving jockeys and trainers...or do you trainers think that you are the only people affected by the outcome of these races? A jockey shamelessly raps up on a horse while one length off the lead, and your advice is to put this incident behind us and go on? Unbelievable...

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Old 02-27-2010, 12:02 AM   #23
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Hanover1, I know from previous posts that you are a trainer...do you not see how detrimental to the integrity of this game it is, when trainers give instructions to jockeys to lose, even when they are on the best horse, as was clearly the case in this race? Don't you think the horseplayers job is hard enough without thieving jockeys and trainers...or do you trainers think that you are the only people affected by the outcome of these races? A jockey shamelessly raps up on a horse while one length off the lead, and your advice is to put this incident behind us and go on? Unbelievable...
You clearly don't understand the situation. In all likelyhood, in light of the retraction by the board, the indications point to the rider not hitting the horse per instructions-nothing more. And yes, many horses go BACKWARDS when stuck with a whip. Who said anyone gave instructions to lose? This is your assumption clearly, and not based on any conversation you may have heard indicating otherwise. The can of worms was opened up with the retraction by the board of the penalty. Clearly the board saw it much as I did? Or are they a bunch of thieves also? If that is the assumption here, that why associate yourself with all of us cheaters and thieves?
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:08 AM   #24
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Forget the whip - where was the urgency???

Imriledup posted:

"Also, all whip talk aside, why was the hand ride so weak and passive late in the lane? That weak hand ride has nothing to do with whipping or not whipping...where was the aggressive hand urge? I didn't see one."

===

Exactly, so he followed instructions from the trainer to "not use the whip" - so what?

His noticeably reserved "hand urging" indicates to any viewer that he didn't seem to be trying very hard or "at all costs" to get up for the win.

That in and of itself is an indictment of Simon Husbands racing skills. If he didn't want his reputation to ever be ruined, he should have known long ago that appearances are everything.

And in this case, he didn't APPEAR to be giving his all on that horse down the stretch (whether he was or not). Furthermore, he seemed to veer out to his right midstretch just as the #1 horse was closing in from third. That would lend even more evidence that he was helping his brother stay in first.

Any trainer who won't hire Husbands to ride for him can point to the fact he doesn't appear to ride well as opposed to just being "an accused cheat". That is cause enough to look for someone else.
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:10 AM   #25
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You clearly don't understand the situation. In all likelyhood, in light of the retraction by the board, the indications point to the rider not hitting the horse per instructions-nothing more. And yes, many horses go BACKWARDS when stuck with a whip. Who said anyone gave instructions to lose? This is your assumption clearly, and not based on any conversation you may have heard indicating otherwise. The can of worms was opened up with the retraction by the board of the penalty. Clearly the board saw it much as I did? Or are they a bunch of thieves also? If that is the assumption here, that why associate yourself with all of us cheaters and thieves?
The jockey never made a move on the horse, even causing the announcer to say "Bugs Boy is yet to be asked", with about 100 yards to go in the race. Down to the wire, the jockey's hands never moved forward on the horse...I suppose that a lot of horses also "go BACKWARDS" as a result of a vigorous hand ride too...
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:29 AM   #26
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And just as a point of clarification, the whip issue in this instance not specifically my contention here:

The rule that mandates riders to put forth every effort to give their mount the best chance for the best possible placing supercedes the non-existent rule that riders pay attention to what trainers/owners tell them under all circumstances.
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:35 AM   #27
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And just as a point of clarification, the whip issue in this instance not specifically my contention here:

The rule that mandates riders to put forth every effort to give their mount the best chance for the best possible placing supercedes the non-existent rule that riders pay attention to what trainers/owners tell them under all circumstances.
Thank you!!
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ponyplayerdotca
Imriledup posted:

"Also, all whip talk aside, why was the hand ride so weak and passive late in the lane? That weak hand ride has nothing to do with whipping or not whipping...where was the aggressive hand urge? I didn't see one."

===

Exactly, so he followed instructions from the trainer to "not use the whip" - so what?

His noticeably reserved "hand urging" indicates to any viewer that he didn't seem to be trying very hard or "at all costs" to get up for the win.

That in and of itself is an indictment of Simon Husbands racing skills. If he didn't want his reputation to ever be ruined, he should have known long ago that appearances are everything.

And in this case, he didn't APPEAR to be giving his all on that horse down the stretch (whether he was or not). Furthermore, he seemed to veer out to his right midstretch just as the #1 horse was closing in from third. That would lend even more evidence that he was helping his brother stay in first.

Any trainer who won't hire Husbands to ride for him can point to the fact he doesn't appear to ride well as opposed to just being "an accused cheat". That is cause enough to look for someone else.

Very good post.

Like Ponyplayer says, if Husbands was all out and giving max effort to win, he LOOKED like a jockey who had amateurish skills and wasn't getting anything out of his mount. If that's the best he's got, why would anyone hire him to ride?
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:23 PM   #29
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If we subscribe to the notion that this rider was cheating, then the crime here was the retraction by the board, the very board assigned with the job of protecting the betting public. In a twist of irony, I would not be surprised to see some entity rule in the riders favor, to punish the board for the retraction. If he was violating the rules ala not 100% effort, and the board flip-flopped on the issue, then THEY must pay, and the ban reinstated imo. Would we all be happy with that solution? Obviously I am pro horseman, but wrong is wrong, and am open to debate when issues arise. Image IS everything.....
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:48 PM   #30
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Dumb question....if a rider is not going to use a whip, why the hell is he carrying one with him? Doesn't it make more sense than telling everyone ( or not) that he has one, but is not going to use it?
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