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02-14-2018, 12:03 PM
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#31
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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"Sports betting basically entails setting up a room with a counter, a couple of machines, a couple of people, some TVs, maybe a big board and someone to run the ship and post some lines."
Sounds like an OTB or simulcast.
The racing parimutuel model is broken. Admit it.
The tracks must love you taking their side.
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02-14-2018, 12:05 PM
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#32
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
"Sports betting basically entails setting up a room with a counter, a couple of machines, a couple of people, some TVs, maybe a big board and someone to run the ship and post some lines."
Sounds like an OTB or simulcast.
The racing parimutuel model is broken. Admit it.
The tracks must love you taking their side.
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Don't be an a-hole. I'm not taking anyone's side...just teaching you to think about reality.
Running a racetrack in no way compares to running a sports book.
OTB or simulcast outlets have little to do with it, but thanks for playing.
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02-14-2018, 12:06 PM
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#33
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Sports betting basically entails setting up a room with a counter, a couple of machines, a couple of people, some TVs, maybe a big board and someone to run the ship and post some lines.
Compare that with running a racetrack and then tell me again that you're sure 10% take will work for both industries just the same.
10% is probably NOT the optimal takeout for racing, where it will benefit the game as a whole. And you have zero evidence to say that it is.
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Why have the percentages changed? Percentages don't have inflation.
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02-14-2018, 12:06 PM
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#34
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Why have the percentages changed? Percentages don't have inflation.
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Not sure what you're referring to...please explain
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02-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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#35
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Not sure what you're referring to...please explain
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The cost of running a track has always been there even when takeout was much lower. Why has racing kept having to raise prices? Making the game tougher and tougher to beat will only ensure its demise.
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02-14-2018, 12:13 PM
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#36
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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CJ,
The difference is slots are kept totally separate from the racing.
Imagine an OTB or a simulcast location with the sports betting integrated.
TV's with sports, nearby TV's with horses. There's going to be crossover.
Our OTB is practically dead. Maybe a quarter of the space is being used.
The back room that was used for the smokers is a storage room for broken/outdated equipment and broken benches.
It could come alive again with sports. People that never bet racing might actually get interested just by being there with the horseplayers.
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02-14-2018, 12:18 PM
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#37
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
CJ,
The difference is slots are kept totally separate from the racing.
Imagine an OTB or a simulcast location with the sports betting integrated.
TV's with sports, nearby TV's with horses. There's going to be crossover.
Our OTB is practically dead. Maybe a quarter of the space is being used.
The back room that was used for the smokers is a storage room for broken/outdated equipment and broken benches.
It could come alive again with sports. People that never bet racing might actually get interested just by being there with the horseplayers.
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At this point it can't hurt to try, but I've seen that experiment many times in Vegas casinos. I don't see a lot of crossover. Sports betting is a competitor, not a partner. The only answer for racing is to compete, sink or swim on its own merits. Right now it will get crushed.
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02-14-2018, 12:20 PM
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#38
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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"...just teaching you to think about reality."
You're "teaching me" LOL.
You have an awfully high opinion of yourself PA.
BTW.
Tracks ALWAYS had to pay to put on the show. Even in 1876, or whatever.
Maybe you need to learn a few things hotshot.
Last edited by Denny; 02-14-2018 at 12:25 PM.
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02-14-2018, 12:25 PM
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#39
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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And just to be clear, takeout on sports is not 10%, it is significantly less.
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02-14-2018, 12:25 PM
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#40
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
"...just teaching you to think about reality."
You're "teaching me" LOL.
You have an awfully high opinion of yourself PA.
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You're not living in reality if you think racing in its current, self-imposed state, can survive on 10% takeout.
I'm not saying takeout shouldn't be lowered, so don't put words in my mouth.
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02-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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#41
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
"...just teaching you to think about reality."
You're "teaching me" LOL.
You have an awfully high opinion of yourself PA.
BTW.
Tracks ALWAYS had to pay to put on the show. Even in 1876, or whatever.
Maybe you need to learn a few things hotshot.
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Keep it up.
Instead of verbal jousting, show me ONE bit of research that says racing takeout should be at 10%
Surely you have SOMETHING other than "the guy who invented pari-mutuel determined 10% to be the optimal takeout"
That's LAUGHABLE...
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02-14-2018, 12:29 PM
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#42
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You're not living in reality if you think racing in its current, self-imposed state, can survive on 10% takeout.
I'm not saying takeout shouldn't be lowered, so don't put words in my mouth.
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That is my point. Racing has done this to itself with a multitude of short sighted decisions. Sadly at this point there probably is no way out. If there is, it will take major changes and a LOT of pain that until now only horseplayers have had to endure.
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02-14-2018, 12:46 PM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,121
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How any one thinks that bringing potential new customers to a track so that horse racing can show how bad their product is, is a good idea, is beyond me. And once they show these new customers how bad their product is, even if they change and improve their product, good luck getting them to come back. Sure, at first you might get a small increase in handle, but in the long run, the tracks will lose what they desperately need, and that these potential new customers.
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02-14-2018, 12:46 PM
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#44
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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PA,
It wasn't just "the Guy" who invented it.
Takeout WAS 10% AT RACETRACKS.
Do the research - that you want me to do for you.
Even in the mid 20th century it was 14%. It's even in Ainslie's books written in the 70's.
You're the one that doesn't know very much.
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02-14-2018, 12:51 PM
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#45
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
PA,
It wasn't just "the Guy" who invented it.
Takeout WAS 10% AT RACETRACKS.
Do the research - that you want me to do for you.
Even in the mid 20th century it was 14%. It's even in Ainslie's books written in the 70's.
You're the one that doesn't know very much.
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What don't I know?
That takeout used to be lower in racing?
No shit.
How about actually addressing what is being discussed?
SO WHAT that it used to be 10% or 14% or whatever lower number than it is today.
Just because it used to be 10% doesn't mean we can magically go back to 10% and everything will be peachy.
Jeez man...how do you even arrive at that conclusion?
Oh, I know...because SPORTS BETTING can work at that number
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 02-14-2018 at 12:54 PM.
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