Does Accelerate now win HOY over Justify?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

This is what I mean by cherrypicking.

While literally true, this is a completely dishonest evaluation of City of Light's abilities. Spalding's post is just a parade of this. If he would be fair and not stack the deck in his arguments, that would be one thing. But he casts all of Accelerate's rivals in the worst light and all of Justify's in the best light.

EDIT: and he flat ignores that Accelerate buried some of the supposedly good three year olds from Justify's class in the BC Classic.

If there was a poll as to who is more credible on this topic and any other horse racing topic, Spalding would crush you, it would be embarassing.....Just sayin'.

[GMB@BP]

I am thoroughly enjoying this, usually I am on the other end of a Spalding beat down!

[djm1959]

justify easily,,,, no average horse on a hot streak against average horses.. only cal. horse that deserved it but lost was zenyatta....triple crown is the super bowl of us racing like it or not....

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

If there was a poll as to who is more credible on this topic and any other horse racing topic, Spalding would crush you, it would be embarassing.....Just sayin'.

So you think City of Light was a bum too?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

He beat Mendelssohn and Lone Sailor by less than 5 lengths. How far back were these in the Kentucky Derby?

You can say McKinzie was beaten on the square, too, but I posted multiple times here during the winter/spring that McKinzie was at best a miler, never mind that he was only making his 2nd start off a 6-month break in the BC Classic.

If you are trying to include the clobbered and injured Catholic Boy or the Euro experiment Roaring Lion than you simply are pulling everyone's leg.

How come you get to argue that Accelerate's rivals were supposedly not 100 percent but it is assumed every Justify rival, like Good Magic, was in tip top form when he beat them?

Also, "less than 5 lengths"? What were the winning margins in the Preakness and Belmont?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I am thoroughly enjoying this, usually I am on the other end of a Spalding beat down!

He cherry picks his facts. His posts are long but as John Wooden said, don't confuse activity with achievement.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

So you think City of Light was a bum too?

Fallacious.

Here's what I said about City of Light during the lead up to the Breeder's Cup:

In re: Someone in a huff because Catalina Cruiser wasn't being hyped prior to the BC:

The only reason that Catalina Cruiser won't go off at odds-on is due to the presence of City of Light, who--unlike Catalina Cruiser--has actually won a Grade 1 race but in truth probably should have been in the Classic.

In re: Someone touting City of Light in the BC Dirt Mile:

City of Light's form is greatly suspect. After a progressive trajectory from the summer of 2017 to early spring 2018, he has declined remarkably. As CJ stated, he was average at best in the Gold Cup and has been out only once since, in a sprint at Saratoga (why was he not in the Whitney and/or Woodward after knocking off Accelerate at Oaklawn?) and was beaten on the square there.

I wouldn't argue against the horse talent-wise, but he's suspect physically. Hopefully the more than 60 days between races cancels those concerns out.

In re: Someone realizing that Accelerate had been beating modest competition all year long prior to the Classic:

The actual BC Classic probables don't inspire either. The older horse division has been horrendous.

Simply put, from a beaten rivals perspective, handling City of Light, West Coast, and Pavel probably is about a strong a calling card as you are going to find.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

How come you get to argue that Accelerate's rivals were supposedly not 100 percent but it is assumed every Justify rival, like Good Magic, was in tip top form when he beat them?

Huh? Where did I say Accelerate's rivals were not 100%? What, because Catholic Boy got hammered out of the gate and came out of the race with a laceration? Do you really take that performance at face value?

No wonder you aren't arguing that Catholic Boy ought to be Eclipse Champion 3yo for winning more 10 furlong restricted races than Justify...

As for Good Magic's form, we're talking about the horse that won the Blue Grass directly prior to the Triple Crown and won the Haskell immediately following the Triple Crown, correct?

Also, "less than 5 lengths"? What were the winning margins in the Preakness and Belmont?

Mendelssohn and Lone Sailor weren't in the Belmont. Lone Sailor was beaten 2 lengths in the Preakness, making no impression on Justify despite getting a golden setup when that one had to go toe-to-toe with Good Magic (in suspect form apparently) from the bell...

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

He cherry picks his facts. His posts are long but as John Wooden said, don't confuse activity with achievement.

At least I'm presenting facts, which is more than I can say on your end.

I guess if I'm not exhaustive I must be cherry-picking...

Here's some more facts (for completeness):

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Justify):

Core Beliefs - Ohio Derby G3
Good Magic - Haskell G1
Audible - Cherokee Run
Hofburg - Curlin
Lone Sailor - Oklahoma Derby G3
Firenze Fire - Dwyer G3, Gallant Bob G3
Promises Fulfilled - Amsterdam G3, Allen Jerkens G1, Phoenix G2
Tenfold - Jim Dandy G2

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Accelerate):

Pavel - Stephen Foster G1
The Lieutenant - All American G3
Malibu Max - Paul Bunyan
City of Light - BC Dirt Mile G1

If you missed the Paul Bunyan Stakes at Canterbury, it was a 6 furlongs race with a 3-horse field and a $50K purse. Malibu Max did not go off as the favorite.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

At least I'm presenting facts, which is more than I can say on your end.

I guess if I'm not exhaustive I must be cherry-picking...

Here's some more facts (for completeness):

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Justify):

Core Beliefs - Ohio Derby G3
Good Magic - Haskell G1
Audible - Cherokee Run
Hofburg - Curlin
Lone Sailor - Oklahoma Derby G3
Firenze Fire - Dwyer G3, Gallant Bob G3
Promises Fulfilled - Amsterdam G3, Allen Jerkens G1, Phoenix G2
Tenfold - Jim Dandy G2

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Accelerate):

Pavel - Stephen Foster G1
The Lieutenant - All American G3
Malibu Max - Paul Bunyan
City of Light - BC Dirt Mile G1

If you missed the Paul Bunyan Stakes at Canterbury, it was a 6 furlongs race with a 3-horse field and a $50K purse. Malibu Max did not go off as the favorite.

You forgot to mention that the Stephen Foster was subsequently downgraded.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by the little guy

You forgot to mention that the Stephen Foster was subsequently downgraded.

That was me cherry-picking the Accelerate side...

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I am thoroughly enjoying this, usually I am on the other end of a Spalding beat down!

No kidding. If he ever responds in the negative to anything I ever post, I'm just going to log off and come back in about 10 days or so.

[thaskalos]

We have to get Spalding No! to join the religious thread.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

We have to get Spalding No! to join the religious thread.

1. Articulate your position and message it to him.

2. Give him 24 hours to prepare his first 10 posts on your behalf.

3. Watch supporters on the other side log out and disappear for 10 days or so.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

At least I'm presenting facts, which is more than I can say on your end.

I guess if I'm not exhaustive I must be cherry-picking...

Here's some more facts (for completeness):

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Justify):

Core Beliefs - Ohio Derby G3
Good Magic - Haskell G1
Audible - Cherokee Run
Hofburg - Curlin
Lone Sailor - Oklahoma Derby G3
Firenze Fire - Dwyer G3, Gallant Bob G3
Promises Fulfilled - Amsterdam G3, Allen Jerkens G1, Phoenix G2
Tenfold - Jim Dandy G2

Subsequent stakes wins by defeated rivals (Accelerate):

Pavel - Stephen Foster G1
The Lieutenant - All American G3
Malibu Max - Paul Bunyan
City of Light - BC Dirt Mile G1

If you missed the Paul Bunyan Stakes at Canterbury, it was a 6 furlongs race with a 3-horse field and a $50K purse. Malibu Max did not go off as the favorite.

I gave you examples of your cherry picking. You deliberately characterized Coty of Light, a VERY good jorse, in the worst possible light.

Here's another example- you give Accelerate no credit for beating Catholic Boy, saying he didn't run his best race.

But you never bother to analyze if anyone facing Justify ran THEIR best race. You just immediately declaim them a bunch of top horses with their graded stakes placing.

You are typing a lot of text to conceal some very dishonest argumentation.