Jerry Hollendorfer Banned from Santa Anita

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Bingo.


Too many horse players are blind to the fact that what is going on at their hometrack on a Thursday is not an attractive product. I get that they love the races and as horse players we can find excitement in any race, but 99% of the world doesn't see it that way.

While I certainly agree most tracks' product isn't appealing these days, you would have to have some organization with a lot more authority to place what horses there are in the right spots to make cutting race dates work, because as I wrote, it hasn't worked thus far. If you suddenly cut race dates in half and could demand that all active horses show up at the tracks that are open, damn the expense and travel, then yeah, that would boost field size. And if you closed Santa Anita for good tomorrow, you'd see a short-term increase in field size at surrounding tracks because the active horses would have to run somewhere, but in the long run most CA breeders would just say "Forget it" and cut the foal crop even more. In two years, you'd be back where you are now. Breeding and racing horses isn't profitable enough these days, even with racino purses.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Just want to add the Ritvo and the TSG team were browbeating and threatening trainers with stall revocation for not entering their horses (or scratching) regardless of weather or track condition. Shelbe Ruis recounted such an experience in an LA Times article (I think). Her story was mostly ignored because IMHO she is just a small fish. But she was telling the truth.

Yet somehow it’s only Hollendorfer that has all those dead and maimed horses? Was he the only one that was getting browbeat?

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Yet somehow it’s only Hollendorfer that has all those dead and maimed horses? Was he the only one that was getting browbeat?

Michael Pender had stalls taken away and was suspended too.

There's not a lot of transparency here, admittedly, and probably never will be to explain the decision (and how it went down) on Hollendorfer.

My guess/theory is that TSG pressured trainers to fill the entry box based on a lot of things, some rational, some emotional. There's reasons why I think they pressured Shelbe (and why she went public) and my guess on Hollendorfer is he probably crossed TSG in some way in the past that it made him an easy target.

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Yet somehow it’s only Hollendorfer that has all those dead and maimed horses? Was he the only one that was getting browbeat?

Meant to add...there were 30 horses who passed, so no, not all Hollendorfer's. I don't know if that's a statistical aberration or if there's a reason why his horses would be more susceptible if entered before Jerry would have entered if not under pressure.

Over the years we've seen here at PA lots of complaints about horses not running more frequently, or trainers being too precious about entering. Also stories about SoCal trainers taking up stalls with horses who won't run during the meet, and so on. It's not crazy for a track operator to question stuff like that in general. But I am of the belief now in this case that TSG's actions placed extraordinary pressure during the wettest winter in a long time that contributed to the situation at SA this year.
I don't really know what to make of that.
The track surface issue is part of the deal here too...but not 100%.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Meant to add...there were 30 horses who passed, so no, not all Hollendorfer's. I don't know if that's a statistical aberration or if there's a reason why his horses would be more susceptible if entered before Jerry would have entered if not under pressure.

Over the years we've seen here at PA lots of complaints about horses not running more frequently, or trainers being too precious about entering. Also stories about SoCal trainers taking up stalls with horses who won't run during the meet, and so on. It's not crazy for a track operator to question stuff like that in general. But I am of the belief now in this case that TSG's actions placed extraordinary pressure during the wettest winter in a long time that contributed to the situation at SA this year.
I don't really know what to make of that.
The track surface issue is part of the deal here too...but not 100%.

I also remember a time when owner Jerry Jamgotchian wanted to scratch a horse at DM, in 2005, and the Stewards said no.
So pressure comes from many areas.

[rtnwin]

Half Smoke posted this link in another area of the Forum. It seems more appropriate here and may give insight as to why Hollendorfer and Pender were banned.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/s...gtype=Homepage

[GMB@BP]

NYRA has now banned Hollendorfer as well.

It appears this non-suspension, without official ruling, is in essence a lifetime ban across most tracks.

Not sure how I feel about this, in terms of due process, for someone who is in the Hall of Fame.

TSG needs to come out with its evidence of misconduct or to me any track that dislikes a trainer in essence could ban them from the game. This should be an official inquiry and ruling rather than the way its being handled.

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

NYRA has now banned Hollendorfer as well.

Why mess with that delicate balance of 4 and 5 horse fields.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

NYRA has now banned Hollendorfer as well.

It appears this non-suspension, without official ruling, is in essence a lifetime ban across most tracks.

Not sure how I feel about this, in terms of due process, for someone who is in the Hall of Fame.

TSG needs to come out with its evidence of misconduct or to me any track that dislikes a trainer in essence could ban them from the game. This should be an official inquiry and ruling rather than the way its being handled.

Asked if he has initiated legal action against The Stronach Group, Couto said, “not as of yet.”

https://www.drf.com/news/reversal-ny...dorfer-runners

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Asked if he has initiated legal action against The Stronach Group, Couto said, “not as of yet.”

https://www.drf.com/news/reversal-ny...dorfer-runners

Yea, I think he was trying to weather the storm and get past this but unless he is going to hang them up sounds like he will have to go that route. I dont see how he will not win. Its a private race track at SA, but Del Mar certainly is not.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Yea, I think he was trying to weather the storm and get past this but unless he is going to hang them up sounds like he will have to go that route. I dont see how he will not win. Its a private race track at SA, but Del Mar certainly is not.

Did San Anita do something wrong in giving him 72 hours to vacate his stalls.?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Did San Anita do something wrong in giving him 72 hours to vacate his stalls.?

Not sure...the CHRB is supposed to govern the rules of racing, essentially what Santa Anita has done is usurped the authority of the CHRB, and now that other jurisdictions are also honoring the defacto suspension it feels like that would be against the rules. I understand again its a private track.

To use my profession, Registered Professional Engineer. Say my company essentially banned me from my work without a Board of Technical review on the status of my licence, then I moved to another State and they said "you were banned from from this company and we are honoring it". Feels like that is what the Board is for, and in essence what the CHRB is for.

I am not a lawyer, just trying to use some common sense, and maybe that is fool hardy.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

NYRA has now banned Hollendorfer as well.

Yikes. I had not heard this.

[NY BRED]

Many of you believe many of these breakdowns are the result of illegal medications and assorted criminal tactics utilized by Mr. H to win over 7,000 races to date.


Presuming you are correct, is anyone looking at the amount of fatalities
that have occurred at Santa Anita vs the balance of tracks across the
United States this year or 10/20/30 years ago? Do you really believe the other trainers are risking their horses, clients, licenses and income to stay in business?

We all can point to trainers current and prior whose horses ,were, at certain points,illegally drugged and continued to race with minor suspensions.I believe
there have been improvements through the year that greatly reduce those incidents, but harsher penalties are still required to negate that issue.


That said, do you believe NYRA would accept JH as one of their trainers and
risk the loss of their fans and encourage the "wrath" of the press, PETA and racing fans?

If you do, simply cease wagering or turn to what you perceive to be a fair
track or racing circuit.

Connecting the dots, wager at Churchill Downs, the "mother of racing" who has turned this game upside down and probably inspired this move by Stronach.

Yup, that IS the way I'm connecting the dots.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Not sure...the CHRB is supposed to govern the rules of racing, essentially what Santa Anita has done is usurped the authority of the CHRB, and now that other jurisdictions are also honoring the defacto suspension it feels like that would be against the rules. I understand again its a private track.

To use my profession, Registered Professional Engineer. Say my company essentially banned me from my work without a Board of Technical review on the status of my licence, then I moved to another State and they said "you were banned from from this company and we are honoring it". Feels like that is what the Board is for, and in essence what the CHRB is for.

I am not a lawyer, just trying to use some common sense, and maybe that is fool hardy.

Maybe his lawyer is doing the same thing.?