The Booming Trump Economy....or not

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Damn, 28k? That's a ton of shooting. Back in the day, we would just put a bigger spring in it.

The fact that it fires fine on reload makes me wonder if maybe the shell is slightly mis aligned ? But I know there isn't much room in there for moving around?

I actually saw a problem like this years ago and it turned out the shells were warped. Literally. The plastic was curved just a little. But these guys would only fire a few before mis firing. They had been stored in a vehicle here in Texas and the heat had warped them.

Well, just on general principle I refuse to buy the expensive shells like AA. I go through around 10k rounds per year (sounds like a lot but it's just two rounds of sporting clays a week), so cost is a consideration. It happens mainly with Federals, but occasionally with the Winchester cheapies. When you examine one of the affected shells, it looks like the dimple in the primer is deep enough to have fired, and is perfectly centered in the primer. I suppose I could bite the bullet, as it were, and buy a case of high dollar shells and see if that solves the problem. To be honest, I'd rather it be a 50 cent spring than the shells, where the cost difference is around $3 per box.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by mostpost

156,000 Jobs added in August. Averaging 170,000 per month since February. Sound good?

Not if you compare it to the 216,000 a month average for the last three years of the Obama administration. And each month that passes, Trump can count less and less on Obama to see him through.

If you look at weekly claims (first time), I think you'd conclude the economy is slightly better now than in 2016. I think the industrial economy (driven primarily by a rebound in oil prices and related spending) has picked up, while the consumer economy is a little softer. Before you attack me because I'm a Republican, remember I thought Trump would never get elected (obviously wrong) and I did not vote for him (or Hillary). And he's surprised me - by the level of his incompetence.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Yes, but it's had the problem since it was new. It's really not a high dollar shotgun. It's the A300, the least expensive Beretta you can get (Bass Pro sells them). Mine's got around 28,000 rounds through it. And except for the occasional but annoying light primer strike, it's been flawless. Odd thing is, once the problem occurs you can load the affected shell back in and it will fire.

Please don't take anything I say as insulting to your intelligence as I have no idea of your understanding of manufacturing processes or mechanics. Reusing the same shell that originally didn't fire successfully and having success the second time around really doesn't eliminate anything as a cause. The first strike stretched the metal in the primer and weakened it so the second strike caused a larger deformity than the first even using the same force.

As a disclaimer I have only personally repaired a .357 revolver and a 22 rifle. I am a class A machinist and a grade B in a lot of other things. I also don't stay in Holiday Inns, I prefer Red Roof when I travel.

I think your problem requires a cross between a gunsmith, machinist and mechanical engineer to diagnose. That still might not be enough, that person might also need access to the blueprints of all the guns components. If this has happened since new your gun either has an out of spec component or a component that was damaged during assembly. Which one is it? If it was my gun here is what I would do. Not sure what your gunsmith has done. Hopefully you live in a place like I do where you can shoot off your back porch and no one cares.

Fire the gun until you get two non fires and when you do keep the shell before and shell after and label all of them. I would then inspect the shells thoroughly on all outside dimensions to see if a variation in the shells caused a problem. That could lead to what out of spec or damaged component could not handle a variation in the shells. I would also use a tool maker's microscope and analyze the firing pin strikes. It could be the firing pin is out of spec or has too much play in it and a slight variation in a shell can cause a weak strike.

If the above does not solve the crime I would go to the complete pain in the ass experiment. Take every shell and coat the brass area with red lay-out dye. Fire the gun until you get misfires. Inspect the difference between the misfires and the shells fired correctly. If the shells that misfire do it because of improper seating or loading process the dye missing in spots should give clues as to why.

In summation you need to find someone who wants to trouble shoot this gun as a challenge to their skills, not charging you regular shop rate. Intermittent problems are always the toughest to solve. If the manufacturer will give you a free estimate try them. I think it is obvious your gun cannot handle the slight variation in the shells. A stronger spring or longer firing pin could fix the problem, but one needs to examine the misfires to make that decision.

[Inner Dirt]

Mulerider,

If you want to do test #1 as I said and send the shells to me in a small flat rate box I would be more than happy to inspect them on the house. Would have to ask our local (Pace Advantage member not local to me) condescending jack ass ex mailman about the legalities of mailing a live shotgun shell, if that is against the law you would need to cut the end open and dump the pellets out. I would not want you to refire it.

P.S. That would at least prove Ralph's theory that I agree with, that a variation in the shells is the problem. The issue would be should your gun be able to handle that variation in ammunition or have you been buying crap.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

P.S. That would at least prove Ralph's theory that I agree with, that a variation in the shells is the problem. The issue would be should your gun be able to handle that variation in ammunition or have you been buying crap.

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm going to buy a case of Win AA and see if the problem occurs. There's no doubt that I'm not buying top quality shells. The Federals and Winchesters in the 4-packs at Wallyworld are, I'm sure, made to a price point. In fact, around a year ago I noticed a bunch of loose #8 shot in my bag...opened a new box of the cheap Winchesters and found 5 shells that had been "overfilled" to the point where it was impossible to crimp the end. So I wouldn't be surprised if the primers were set too deeply, or something like that. Thanks again!

Mule

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Yes, but it's had the problem since it was new. It's really not a high dollar shotgun. It's the A300, the least expensive Beretta you can get (Bass Pro sells them). Mine's got around 28,000 rounds through it. And except for the occasional but annoying light primer strike, it's been flawless. Odd thing is, once the problem occurs you can load the affected shell back in and it will fire.

Is it occurring when it cycles, first shot, or both?

If just cycling it may be your loads. Buy yourself a couple hundred shells of heavy load and see if that's the issue.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm going to buy a case of Win AA and see if the problem occurs. There's no doubt that I'm not buying top quality shells. The Federals and Winchesters in the 4-packs at Wallyworld are, I'm sure, made to a price point. In fact, around a year ago I noticed a bunch of loose #8 shot in my bag...opened a new box of the cheap Winchesters and found 5 shells that had been "overfilled" to the point where it was impossible to crimp the end. So I wouldn't be surprised if the primers were set too deeply, or something like that. Thanks again!

Mule

It does suck that trusted brands of years gone by have gone to hell. You never know when they will lower their quality standards, off shore production and try to live off their name and reputation while their quality standards go downhill. Not sure of your age but I am 56 and have been firing guns since I was 7. Winchester and Federal ammo used to be good stuff. As a disclaimer I last owned and used a shotgun 30 years ago. Now it is just revolvers and a couple rifles.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Is it occurring when it cycles, first shot, or both?

If just cycling it may be your loads. Buy yourself a couple hundred shells of heavy load and see if that's the issue.

I only load two shells in sporting clays, of course, and the issue can occur with the first shot or second. The shotgun runs fine, I've never had a cycling issue with it at all. I'm normally shooting the cheap 4-pack Federal or Win, 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz. loads, I think around 1200 fps. When I first bought the gun I ran a box or two of heavy loads through it, as I'd heard that would "break it in," but it has never failed to cycle, even when I drop down to 1 oz. loads.

I might also add (or admit) that while I clean my rifles meticulously after each trip to the range, this particular shotgun might go several hundred rounds before I tear it down for a good scrubbing, especially if I'm doing a long weekend of tournaments. So that might be part of the problem, as well. Until now it never occurred to me to pay attention to whether the problem gets worse the longer it's been since a cleaning. I'll check that. Carbon buildup in the firing pin channel, maybe? I know the cheap shells don't use the cleanest powder.

Mule

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

I only load two shells in sporting clays, of course, and the issue can occur with the first shot or second. The shotgun runs fine, I've never had a cycling issue with it at all. I'm normally shooting the cheap 4-pack Federal or Win, 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz. loads, I think around 1200 fps. When I first bought the gun I ran a box or two of heavy loads through it, as I'd heard that would "break it in," but it has never failed to cycle, even when I drop down to 1 oz. loads.

I might also add (or admit) that while I clean my rifles meticulously after each trip to the range, this particular shotgun might go several hundred rounds before I tear it down for a good scrubbing, especially if I'm doing a long weekend of tournaments. So that might be part of the problem, as well. Until now it never occurred to me to pay attention to whether the problem gets worse the longer it's been since a cleaning. I'll check that. Carbon buildup in the firing pin channel, maybe? I know the cheap shells don't use the cleanest powder.

Mule

That's certainly possible as well. That gun should be able to go a couple hundred rounds though before fouling. If you're shooting that heavily at this point why not upgrade? My Benelli SS is my favorite swatter at the club.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

That's certainly possible as well. That gun should be able to go a couple hundred rounds though before fouling. If you're shooting that heavily at this point why not upgrade? My Benelli SS is my favorite swatter at the club.

One of my shooting buddies bought a Benelli Ethos a while back. Gorgeous gun. He brought it to our club trap range one Friday night, and let me shoot it. I liked it a lot. My friend, though, complained about the recoil and went back to his old gun. I offered to buy the Ethos from him at what he'd paid, but he wanted to keep it. Awfully expensive safe queen...

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

One of my shooting buddies bought a Benelli Ethos a while back. Gorgeous gun. He brought it to our club trap range one Friday night, and let me shoot it. I liked it a lot. My friend, though, complained about the recoil and went back to his old gun. I offered to buy the Ethos from him at what he'd paid, but he wanted to keep it. Awfully expensive safe queen...

That's what I carry as my field gun. A lot of people complain about their recoil but growing up with Browning A5s I'm used to a recoil operated gun. If you break them down the simplicity of the inertia system is pretty amazing. If you liked it and it "fit" you the A400 or any of the other inertia guns should feel good as well. Remington for instance doesn't fit me at all largely because they all have a shorter length of pull.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

One of my shooting buddies bought a Benelli Ethos a while back. Gorgeous gun. He brought it to our club trap range one Friday night, and let me shoot it. I liked it a lot. My friend, though, complained about the recoil and went back to his old gun. I offered to buy the Ethos from him at what he'd paid, but he wanted to keep it. Awfully expensive safe queen...

Another thing I would do is pick up some of the shells various other guns have fired. Guys that claim they have never had a non fire. If your eye is keen enough you could notice a difference. Could be your gun's normal strike could be on the low end of what it takes to detonate a primer. You get a shell that doesn't seat correctly and the deviation is enough it won't fire. Could be the other gun's strike is strong enough that weakening it a little doesn't stop the functioning.

[classhandicapper]

The stock market tends to do better when interest rates are low and the Fed is providing very easy money. That's a scenario both republicans and democrats want (because they are both incompetent fools that want to finance their irresponsible spending via the printing press), but it's more of a left leaning policy. The "hard money", "sound money" advocates are all republicans and libertarians.

That partly explains why the market does better under democrats.

However, the downside of that prolific spending and easy money is economic mis-allocation and market bubbles that burst.

So one could say the stock market tends to do better when economic idiots are in charge, but only for awhile. The payback comes later.

That is why from day 1 I've been saying Trump should not be taking credit for the rise in the stock market. It's true that his tax policy, if implemented, would increase the value of American business. But stocks are very expensive due all the easy money and spending under Obama. If he takes the credit, when the shit hits the fan he will also take the blame. He was much smarter in the campaign when he kept pointing out that the market was in a bubble. The bubble is Yellen's fault under Obama.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Fair enough. But it's not proportionate to the claim presidents alone affect stock markets. My original point.

Well, if Tax Reform doesn't happen, then you might want to start investing in Bonds and Gold. Quickly.

IF anything. Our Congress has to make this happen. They haven't done anything for the American people in a long time (other than storm relief).

No Tax Reform, we may as well just tar and feather every congressperson voting against tax reform for whatever BS reason they have. And I'm damn sure Schumer, Pelosi, Warren, and newfound favorite Kamala Harris will be on the forefront to oppose with $15 minimum wage and racism tagged BS.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It's not a video, it's that NYT article with quotes from Barney Frank and Melvin Watts at the time saying Fannie and Freddie don't require any further regulation from the Bush Admin because that would just make it harder for people to buy houses they can't afford...

This was in 2005...when the Bush admin proposed sweeping regulations for Fannie and Freddie...

Do we have to do this again? Republicans controlled both houses of Congress in 2005. Despite that, they never even tried to get the legislation out of committee. In fact, I don't think they even held hearings on it.

I also am quite certain that neither Frank nor Watts ever said that people should be able to buy houses they can't afford. That is your phony quote, created solely out of your imagination.

From 2003 to 2006 the share of subprime mortgages held by private companies quadrupled from 10% to 40%. The number of failed mortgages held by private mortgage providers was six times that of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.