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Old 04-21-2018, 10:34 AM   #1
horses4courses
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Conservatives are frauds

Good article from a liberal perspective.
Points out how conservatives have lost their way.
They are little more than a complete bunch of frauds these days.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/f...ples-1.3467139




Quote:
We are due a public retraction on a grand scale. Conservatives have long pretended to adhere to certain core values, timeless truths they hold sacred and (of course) immutable. And what is becoming ever more starkly obvious is that they don’t really believe these things at all, or at least that they find them important only when liberals are allegedly violating them.
Quote:
The US national debt, now $21 trillion, will soar to more than $33 trillion in 2028. It will then be 96 per cent of GDP, the highest level since the second World War. If these projections were issued under a Democratic administration the response from conservatives in the US and worldwide would be apoplectic and apocalyptic. Hell would be at the gates.
When Barack Obama was in power conservatives pretended to see the growing fiscal deficit as a threat to civilization as we know it. In 2011 the Republicans brought government to a standstill by demanding nothing less than a constitutional amendment to require balanced budgets and an elimination of the deficit.
Quote:
Conservatives pretended to see deficits not just as a fiscal and economic question but also as a moral test. They were tokens of laxity, irresponsibility, ill discipline and a refusal to face hard choices. They were the external numerical expression of the internal spiritual weakness of the left. The real deficit was not in money but in character.
Quote:
Deficits “proved” that contemporary societies could no longer “afford” public health and welfare systems. But, oddly enough, they don’t prove that contemporary societies cannot afford enormous tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.
Quote:
If Barack Obama’s lawyer paid off a porn star to conceal her story of having sex with him shortly after his wife had given birth, we know how conservatives would have reacted: with rage, disgust and jeremiads about the way liberals were leading the world into a moral cesspit. When it was revealed that this had actually happened with Donald Trump the same conservatives suddenly discovered that the sexual behaviour of a president is irrelevant.
Quote:
White evangelical Protestants continue to be the bedrock supporters of Trump, a self-declared sexual predator. There has been some loss of support among women evangelicals, but overall that base has remained solid. This is not because religious conservatives do not believe Stormy Daniels (more believe her than Trump) but because they don’t really care. Moral outrage at sexual turpitude turns out to be another selective weapon, a sword to be wielded against liberals but sheathed when the sinners are on the right side.
Quote:
If 1 per cent of what is known about the Trump campaign’s collusion with the Russians had been shown to be the case in relation to any Democratic president, conservatives would have cried treason. They would have characterized that presidency as an affront to American patriotism and as fundamentally illegitimate.
Quote:
Law and order have long been at heart of conservative values. But even these values now seem to be contingent on where the threat to law and order is coming from. The conservative ideal of the rule of law was always rooted in the idea that the state should be “a government of laws and not of men”. The right has increasingly attacked this principle: the state must be the government of the strong man.
Quote:
Yet again we know what conservatives would say if a liberal president were regularly denouncing the FBI. And yet again it turns out that they don’t really care very much. Conservatism has lost the will to be conservative. It knows what it is against – liberals and the left – but has forgotten what it is for.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:10 AM   #2
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Hey, Horsey, regarding the debt thingy: it's the liberals who refuse to deal with the hard facts. The debt problem is not due to a lack of revenue, it's due to out-of-control spending.

The debt crisis could be likened to a guy who has 5 credit cards to his name. Over time, he has maxed out one card after another. Now that he's deep in debt to four banks, and is all set to max out his last card, he blames the credit card companies for his debt and his debt-restrained lifestyle because they won't increase his credit line; and they also have the audacity to demand to be paid to boot.

This is precisely what liberals do. They view taxpayers as a big bank with unlimited reserves. And the liberals have this insatiable appetite for spending. It never crosses a liberal's mind to restrict or reign in spending. Instead, in an attempt to satisfy their appetite, they call for more and more taxes so that they can increase the spending limit. Their solution is to RAISE taxes, just as the spend-aholic's solution to his spending problem is to get the credit card companies to INCREASE his credit limit.

Liberals who think, believe and live like this are very sick puppies.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:19 AM   #3
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As a conservative, I'm still sickened by the fact the "budget" laid upon us still puts more debt on the books. Either way, this shouldn't be a conservative vs liberal issue. Balance the books assholes.

Health Care? Dems worked on that little shit plan of Obamacare dating back to the Carter days. Now people can't get healthcare from more than a single entity in a number of states and counties. Health care is a huge problem. I can't disagree, but tell me exactly how Ocrapcare has actually helped in any way, shape, or form possible?

Sex? You realize the bitch you voted for supported a guy who slept with an intern while he was Chief of the Oval Office right? Men of high regard will always sleep with women outside of marriage. Always have. Always will. You do know that the slush fund to cover this all up is still on the books in Congress so that d-bags like Chuck Schumer can (and will) push their shit under the rug for nobody to see.

As for collusion with Russia, you and the MSM have been riding this train for nearly 2 years. When do you get off? It has hit a brick wall, yet you still hang on to some crapdom of faith that there is actually something there because after so long of believing in something, it crazily becomes some kind of truth in your mind. Kind of like right-wingers that still believe in the Obama birther crap.

As for the call out of the FBI? I find it amusing that people have no problem degrading the White House, yet the FBI is some sacred ground that can't be approached upon even while we have surefire evidence of lies, corruption, and people who simply felt they were better, smarter, and owed the public a favor to get rid of the POTUS now in charge.

In the end, it is just another article in a long line of Lefties thinking they are the moral superiority of the land and that they are smarter than everybody else in the room.

Stick your moral superiority and 122 IQ where the sun don't shine.

Last edited by Lemon Drop Husker; 04-21-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:28 AM   #4
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Didn't bother to open the link. The first few quotes make clear that the article is superficial political propaganda. The quotes also show that the reference is to politicians, that the word "fraud" is used incorrectly, and that the "charges" apply equally to a lot of people on both side of the aisle.

Yawn.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:31 AM   #5
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Ho hum............

Predictable reactions from those who
have developed an aversion to truth.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:55 AM   #6
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you go and vote for guys that you think are conservatives and they get in and are the same as the liberals. same goes for the liberals.

i guess people pay attention to labels. my opinion is that the 2 labels we have are both bad and just push buttons and are both full of shit.

we have 325 million people living in this country these days and i know you can't please everyone. so why not try and coast your way through this world?
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horses4courses View Post
Predictable reactions from those who
have developed an aversion to truth.
And real shocking that you would go further into the moral superiority depths of 'truth seeking'.

I hate a lot of things Trump says or does, but I like his policies when it really gets down to it.

You liked everything Obama said or did, but there is no way possible you liked a bit of his policy decisions when the hammer met the nail. How could you? After that diatribe and after he doubled our National Debt, anything else you could possibly say is more hollow than a Justin Beiber video.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horses4courses View Post
Predictable reactions from those who
have developed an aversion to truth.
Truth... Truth...

You can't handle the truth. Now back to your safe-space with your BoBo and Hillary posters.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:10 PM   #9
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There are couple of fair points in here. Namely the hypocrisy of the evangelicals and the debt/deficit. A quick search of this forum would put that on display.

The rest...

Ultimately though it's endemic to both sides. No one cares as long as their perceived side is #winning. Hypocrisy runs strong on both sides of the spectrum.

Last edited by elysiantraveller; 04-21-2018 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horses4courses View Post
Predictable reactions from those who
have developed an aversion to truth.
Applying specious stereotypes to a wide range of people is not truth. To the limited extent that there is some truth there, it applies equally to some on both sides of the aisle.

In short, this "in depth" analysis is no more accurate, informative or insightful than the inane loony tunes you usually post.

And just as hypocritical. Your quotes in the OP compare public knowledge of the morality of Trump to Obama while conveniently ignoring Bill Clinton, the poster boy for sleazy scumbags.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horses4courses View Post
Predictable reactions from those who
have developed an aversion to truth.
Your thread is useless and the featured story bullshit.
Any human with a working brain knows conservatives are about family values and good will. Either you subscribe or you don't. You Horseshit, like most liberals, are the total opposite. You despise family values. and in fact degrade the family unit by supporting gay adoption, as well as other twisted moral garbage.
You have a lot of balls (I assume) to post such ridiculous stupidity.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett View Post
conservatives are about family values
In the past, perhaps.
Now, it's just when it happens to suit you.
Hypocrites all.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:10 PM   #13
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Being a Christian also means you are a sinner. Take me for example. There was a time in my life when I was a gold medal champion sinner. I still sin. When I sin I ask for forgiveness. One that I'm working on and have made much progress on would be using his name in vane, especially in the heat of the moment during a race. I wouldn't call myself an evangelical.

IMO Conservative Christians see Trump as an imperfect person and a champion sinner who in the course of the last two years has supported Christians and their beliefs and traditional values. He may have confessed his previous sins and asked for forgiveness and in Christianity that's the way it works. God knows what's in his heart.

So Christians aren't hypocrites at all for supporting Trump. Jesus hung around sinners all the time in an effort to change their hearts.


Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...-of-tarsus-the

Excerpt:

The Conversion of Saul of Tarsus
by Wayne Jackson

In his popular volume, Paul: A Study in Social and Religious History, first published in 1912, Adolf Deissmann (who did so much to demonstrate the nature of Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament) once said that the true historical investigator must rescue “the paper Paul of our western libraries.” He spoke of the “Germanized, dogmatized, modernized, stilted Paul.” And one might add, the “denominationalized” Paul. False images must be stripped away from the historic Paul, the “actual Paul of ancient days” (1957, 4).

Paul is a pivotal character of history. From a relative first-century obscurity, to a modern international figure, no one, aside from Jesus Christ himself, has been so influential. An absence of some acquaintance with the name “Paul,” tells more about one’s self than ought to be known.

The Persecutor

Exactly when Paul began his bloody mission of savagery against the church of Christ is unknown with any degree of precision. The fear of him was significant, and those beyond the borders of Palestine trembled at the mention of the name of this “wolf” who stalked “the fold of the Lamb” (Acts 9:13,26; cf. 26:11).

Saul of Tarsus first appears in the biblical record as a witness to the stoning of Stephen, the first martyr to the cause of Christ—even “consenting” to his death (Acts 7:58; 9:1). Henceforth his persecution of Christians, as portrayed in the book of Acts via his own testimony, was relentless—though he thought sincerely he was doing Jehovah’s will (23:1; 26:9). Pursuing the saints even unto foreign cities (26:11), he beat, imprisoned, and had them put to death (22:19). Later he would write that “beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and made havoc of it” (Galatians 1:13). The horrible memories of these vicious attacks would linger with the sensitive apostle for the balance of his earthly days (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:9; Ephesians 3:8; 1 Timothy 1:15).

That frenzied ambition to exterminate Christianity from the face of the earth was to radically change, however. And the record of how that occurred is as amazing as it is inspiring.

The Conversion

According to Luke’s historical record (Acts 9:1ff), Saul, armed with arrest warrants for those of the Christian Way, departed from Jerusalem en route to ancient Damascus, some 140 miles to the north. As he drew near that city, a light brighter than the noonday sun suddenly engulfed him. A voice inquired: “Saul, Saul, why do you continue to persecute me?” The double use of his name suggests a reproof (cf. Matthew 23:37; Luke 10:41; 22:31). Saul responded: “Who are you, Lord?” The title “Lord” was employed at this point as a mere term of respect, for he knew not who had addressed him.
The voice was identified as Jesus of Nazareth! The stunned persecutor was instructed to enter Damascus where he would be informed as to what he “must do.” Blinded as a consequence of this miraculous vision in which Christ actually appeared to him (9:17; 1 Corinthians 15:8), Saul was led into the city.

For three agonizing days he fasted and prayed. Finally, Ananias, a messenger selected by God, arrived. He restored Saul’s sight and commanded him to “arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). After certain days passed, the former persecutor began to proclaim among his fellow Jews that Jesus “is the Son of God” (see Acts 9:19-22).
The Conversion Motive
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by horses4courses View Post
In the past, perhaps.
Now, it's just when it happens to suit you.
Hypocrites all.
So according to you, all conservatives are hypocrites, and no liberals are.

I think that is pretty hypocritical.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
Being a Christian also means you are a sinner. Take me for example. There was a time in my life when I was a gold medal champion sinner. I still sin. When I sin I ask for forgiveness. One that I'm working on and have made much progress on would be using his name in vane, especially in the heat of the moment during a race. I wouldn't call myself an evangelical.

IMO Conservative Christians see Trump as an imperfect person and a champion sinner who in the course of the last two years has supported Christians and their beliefs and traditional values. He may have confessed his previous sins and asked for forgiveness and in Christianity that's the way it works. God knows what's in his heart.

So Christians aren't hypocrites at all for supporting Trump. Jesus hung around sinners all the time in an effort to change their hearts.


Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...-of-tarsus-the

Excerpt:

The Conversion of Saul of Tarsus
by Wayne Jackson

In his popular volume, Paul: A Study in Social and Religious History, first published in 1912, Adolf Deissmann (who did so much to demonstrate the nature of Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament) once said that the true historical investigator must rescue “the paper Paul of our western libraries.” He spoke of the “Germanized, dogmatized, modernized, stilted Paul.” And one might add, the “denominationalized” Paul. False images must be stripped away from the historic Paul, the “actual Paul of ancient days” (1957, 4).

Paul is a pivotal character of history. From a relative first-century obscurity, to a modern international figure, no one, aside from Jesus Christ himself, has been so influential. An absence of some acquaintance with the name “Paul,” tells more about one’s self than ought to be known.

The Persecutor

Exactly when Paul began his bloody mission of savagery against the church of Christ is unknown with any degree of precision. The fear of him was significant, and those beyond the borders of Palestine trembled at the mention of the name of this “wolf” who stalked “the fold of the Lamb” (Acts 9:13,26; cf. 26:11).

Saul of Tarsus first appears in the biblical record as a witness to the stoning of Stephen, the first martyr to the cause of Christ—even “consenting” to his death (Acts 7:58; 9:1). Henceforth his persecution of Christians, as portrayed in the book of Acts via his own testimony, was relentless—though he thought sincerely he was doing Jehovah’s will (23:1; 26:9). Pursuing the saints even unto foreign cities (26:11), he beat, imprisoned, and had them put to death (22:19). Later he would write that “beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and made havoc of it” (Galatians 1:13). The horrible memories of these vicious attacks would linger with the sensitive apostle for the balance of his earthly days (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:9; Ephesians 3:8; 1 Timothy 1:15).

That frenzied ambition to exterminate Christianity from the face of the earth was to radically change, however. And the record of how that occurred is as amazing as it is inspiring.

The Conversion

According to Luke’s historical record (Acts 9:1ff), Saul, armed with arrest warrants for those of the Christian Way, departed from Jerusalem en route to ancient Damascus, some 140 miles to the north. As he drew near that city, a light brighter than the noonday sun suddenly engulfed him. A voice inquired: “Saul, Saul, why do you continue to persecute me?” The double use of his name suggests a reproof (cf. Matthew 23:37; Luke 10:41; 22:31). Saul responded: “Who are you, Lord?” The title “Lord” was employed at this point as a mere term of respect, for he knew not who had addressed him.
The voice was identified as Jesus of Nazareth! The stunned persecutor was instructed to enter Damascus where he would be informed as to what he “must do.” Blinded as a consequence of this miraculous vision in which Christ actually appeared to him (9:17; 1 Corinthians 15:8), Saul was led into the city.

For three agonizing days he fasted and prayed. Finally, Ananias, a messenger selected by God, arrived. He restored Saul’s sight and commanded him to “arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). After certain days passed, the former persecutor began to proclaim among his fellow Jews that Jesus “is the Son of God” (see Acts 9:19-22).
The Conversion Motive
(im)moral justification.

Wow......impressive.
You are way more messed up than I ever imagined.
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