Done with North American racing until they fix the past posting problem

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

No need to get hostile about it. You need to learn the art of subtlety.

And this by the "master" at subtlety.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Tom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyvRyxpvDi8

I’m more like Samantha from Bewitched. I wiggle my nose and the odds on the screen changes.

That’s how I hit the Derby... Mendelssohn actually won but I wiggled my nose and now he’s last lol

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by jay68802

And this by the "master" at subtlety.

There are definitely times when subtlety is not the right call..this was not one of those times, says the master.

[jay68802]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7blkui3nQc

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It makes no difference if the whales are doing it, or if it's being done by someone else. When the odds change AFTER the horses cross the finish line...then it's a given that the customers will harbor dark suspicions about the goings-on in the game. It shouldn't take a minute and a half to process these "late wagers", in today's electronic age.

Oh, no argument from me about that.

I said what I said because it seems that people think that is how the whales win. If that were the case, they would not need all the researchers and staff that they have.

Do I think there is some past posting? Absolutely.

If for no other reason that the nature of man is to find a way to steal. And there is always a way. (Although today's security measures - especially in handling physical money - are pretty tight. Ironically, it is the back doors that people seem to exploit.)

But stealing a few bucks here and there is one thing and stealing millions a few bucks at a time is completely another story.

[SG4]

Anyone catch this story about the lottery being rigged? I want to believe past-posting is not a large scale problem, but it's hard to have confidence in anything when you see things like this.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...d-mystery.html

[Pensacola Pete]

A man on the HTR forum, who works with one of the groups that pays for a direct tote link, told me that yes indeed the $1,500 bet did come in, and that it was the only bet that registered at the end. However, the bet was actually made with a few seconds to off time, and it came in with several other bets from that source.

The man explained it to me: United and the other hubs have been having problems with some wannabe kid-hackers spoofing big bets. The bets show up in the pools, but they don't pass an integrity check --- some sort of double-verification --- and they're removed from the pool before the final results are in. Other bets, which are larger than a certain amount (he said it varies from track to track, but is usually either $500 or $1,000), don't even show up in the pool until they've passed the verification check, so that the odds don't skew. Once the bets have passed the double-check and been determined to be legitimate, they're added to the pool. The $1,500 bet in question came from one of the sources that has had many problems with spoofed bets, and it was easily the largest bet at that track for that race. It was verified by the system, and then due to its relatively large size (for that source), some operator or supervisor manually verified its integrity. At that point it was added --- which happened to be after the race just finished.

The man told me that this will explain why sometimes you see large bets show up at the end, and also why it appears the money was taken out of the race after it ended. It isn't past posting. It's large bets that need to be verified and that are usually correct (which causes a delay) but sometimes spoofed (which means they didn't really exist and need to be removed).

The man also said that there have been at least ten known instances in the past ten years in which flagrant past-posting has occurred. All were patched/fixed when discovered. The "best" one for those who exploit past-posting was for 10 days in 2015: it was possible to get a bet in on Australian racing (the North America pools hosted by Woodbine) up to 15 seconds after the race went off. This was supposedly due to a lazy (possibly Sky Racing) employee who didn't send the "STOP" signal to North America soon enough.

Take it for what you wish. I still believe that past posting happens, but at least some of the weird money makes a little more sense.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Pensacola Pete

A man on the HTR forum, who works with one of the groups that pays for a direct tote link, told me that yes indeed the $1,500 bet did come in, and that it was the only bet that registered at the end. However, the bet was actually made with a few seconds to off time, and it came in with several other bets from that source.

The man explained it to me: United and the other hubs have been having problems with some wannabe kid-hackers spoofing big bets. The bets show up in the pools, but they don't pass an integrity check --- some sort of double-verification --- and they're removed from the pool before the final results are in. Other bets, which are larger than a certain amount (he said it varies from track to track, but is usually either $500 or $1,000), don't even show up in the pool until they've passed the verification check, so that the odds don't skew. Once the bets have passed the double-check and been determined to be legitimate, they're added to the pool. The $1,500 bet in question came from one of the sources that has had many problems with spoofed bets, and it was easily the largest bet at that track for that race. It was verified by the system, and then due to its relatively large size (for that source), some operator or supervisor manually verified its integrity. At that point it was added --- which happened to be after the race just finished.

The man told me that this will explain why sometimes you see large bets show up at the end, and also why it appears the money was taken out of the race after it ended. It isn't past posting. It's large bets that need to be verified and that are usually correct (which causes a delay) but sometimes spoofed (which means they didn't really exist and need to be removed).

The man also said that there have been at least ten known instances in the past ten years in which flagrant past-posting has occurred. All were patched/fixed when discovered. The "best" one for those who exploit past-posting was for 10 days in 2015: it was possible to get a bet in on Australian racing (the North America pools hosted by Woodbine) up to 15 seconds after the race went off. This was supposedly due to a lazy (possibly Sky Racing) employee who didn't send the "STOP" signal to North America soon enough.

Take it for what you wish. I still believe that past posting happens, but at least some of the weird money makes a little more sense.

Good info... but my question is... why did you say he went off 9/5, went to 3/2 on far turn and ended 6/5 when it obviously wasn’t the case?

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

Good info... but my question is... why did you say he went off 9/5, went to 3/2 on far turn and ended 6/5 when it obviously wasn’t the case?

I agree. I re-watched the race on RTN and saw the same thing, 3/2 to 6/5, and didn't think anything of it.

[Franco Santiago]

Originally Posted by jocko699

I agree. I re-watched the race on RTN and saw the same thing, 3/2 to 6/5, and didn't think anything of it.

Because we see what we look for.

Do this: look around the room you are in now and find everything that is red. Do it for 10 seconds.

After you are done scroll down.

















































Now list everything that is yellow. You probably can't remember too much. That is because you were looking for red. Same principle applies to what happened to the OP.

[Andy Asaro]

7th at Belmont

Twitter

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

7th at Belmont

https://twitter.com/Pullthepocket/st...13471578808320

He was 11-1 at post and went to 10.90-1 within 12
Seconds of the race starting... hardly time for past posters to get their bets in and appearing on an “antiquated” system, right?

**Yawn**

[Denny]

People are starting to get a little crazy with this. Its overblown.
Yawning too.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Pensacola Pete

A man on the HTR forum, who works with one of the groups that pays for a direct tote link, told me that yes indeed the $1,500 bet did come in, and that it was the only bet that registered at the end. However, the bet was actually made with a few seconds to off time, and it came in with several other bets from that source.

The man explained it to me: United and the other hubs have been having problems with some wannabe kid-hackers spoofing big bets. The bets show up in the pools, but they don't pass an integrity check --- some sort of double-verification --- and they're removed from the pool before the final results are in. Other bets, which are larger than a certain amount (he said it varies from track to track, but is usually either $500 or $1,000), don't even show up in the pool until they've passed the verification check, so that the odds don't skew. Once the bets have passed the double-check and been determined to be legitimate, they're added to the pool. The $1,500 bet in question came from one of the sources that has had many problems with spoofed bets, and it was easily the largest bet at that track for that race. It was verified by the system, and then due to its relatively large size (for that source), some operator or supervisor manually verified its integrity. At that point it was added --- which happened to be after the race just finished.

The man told me that this will explain why sometimes you see large bets show up at the end, and also why it appears the money was taken out of the race after it ended. It isn't past posting. It's large bets that need to be verified and that are usually correct (which causes a delay) but sometimes spoofed (which means they didn't really exist and need to be removed).

The man also said that there have been at least ten known instances in the past ten years in which flagrant past-posting has occurred. All were patched/fixed when discovered. The "best" one for those who exploit past-posting was for 10 days in 2015: it was possible to get a bet in on Australian racing (the North America pools hosted by Woodbine) up to 15 seconds after the race went off. This was supposedly due to a lazy (possibly Sky Racing) employee who didn't send the "STOP" signal to North America soon enough.

Take it for what you wish. I still believe that past posting happens, but at least some of the weird money makes a little more sense.

in my world, that is a very tough explanation to swallow. it sounds so bizarre to me that it would be a tough explanation to make up. in any event, my head is spinning trying to follow the explanation! rock on baby

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Denny

People are starting to get a little crazy with this. Its overblown.
Yawning too.

I actually enjoy taking 15 seconds to watch the beginning of the replay and realize who the Tin Foil Hats are.