Brisnet speed ratings

[horseplayer]

Anyone know how to calculate the winners' Brisnet speed rating ??

eg: horse finished 4 lengths behind the winner and has a Brisnet speed rating of 76 - what was the Brisnet speed rating of the winner.

I called Brisnet and asked to speak with tech staff and told them my question and the person answering said hold on a minute and came back and said it was a ''very complicated process involves pace , variant , the track etc. etc.'' and that was it.

I know this can be done for Beyers - there is a difference for sprint and route calculations.

Thanx for answering - Bob

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by horseplayer

Anyone know how to calculate the winners' Brisnet speed rating ??

eg: horse finished 4 lengths behind the winner and has a Brisnet speed rating of 76 - what was the Brisnet speed rating of the winner.

I called Brisnet and asked to speak with tech staff and told them my question and the person answering said hold on a minute and came back and said it was a ''very complicated process involves pace , variant , the track etc. etc.'' and that was it.

I know this can be done for Beyers - there is a difference for sprint and route calculations.

Thanx for answering - Bob

The reason that techie couldn't/wouldn't answer your simple question, Bob is because he didn't know. He could have just directed you to their website's library. Bris is a good friend to the horseplayer, just don't bother calling.
This is from their site:

"BRIS uses an objective, computer precise method to make the final time projections rather than using the subjective opinion of one handicapper."

At TimeFormUS, they've got some guy, heard he's a cab driver or something, actually makes the final speed figs himself. Not Bris....ooohhh no. The Bris F.A.Q goes on to say:

"The past performances of every horse competing in a given field is examined with the painstaking detail only a computer can do. The projections generated by Bloodstock Research's computer system are based on proprietary techniques and algorithms which have been rigorously tested and long proven over hundreds of thousands of races."

So there ya go.

I better quit clowning--chief figure maker for Time Form US is one of the Moderators here--CJ, as if you didn't already know.

Here's the Bris library link for the Speed Rating info:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=speed

have a good day☮

[thaskalos]

The guy whom you talked to was a moron...the calculation is as easy as it could get. One length in a sprint is 1.5 points...and one length in a route is 1 point.

Ooops...sorry Greg. Didn't see your post.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The guy whom you talked to was a moron...the calculation is as easy as it could get. One length in a sprint is 1.5 points...and one length in a route is 1 point.

Ooops...sorry Greg. Didn't see your post.

You and I posted simutaneously.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The guy whom you talked to was a moron...the calculation is as easy as it could get. One length in a sprint is 1.5 points...and one length in a route is 1 point.

Ooops...sorry Greg. Didn't see your post.

I've always had them at 3/2 and even, depending upon distance.

If you are going to take Bris numbers to task, you are behind the curve already. Maybe even more behind the curve than Beyers numbers guys.

The reason to get BRIS forms is for the pace with the E1/E2 and Late pace numbers.

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

I've always had them at 3/2 and even, depending upon distance.

If you are going to take Bris numbers to task, you are behind the curve already. Maybe even more behind the curve than Beyers numbers guys.

The reason to get BRIS forms is for the pace with the E1/E2 and Late pace numbers.

1 pt = 1 length in routes IS fairly old school....they have that down to finite equations now---I DON'T.... I get my pace figs ready-made...but pace fig makers do

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I find their E1/E2 and Late numbers to be totally inaccurate and utterly USELESS. And their speed ratings are garbage as well. The only thing I admire about these figures is their consistency.

Well that's it, thask.....if you stay with the same figures....all you can ask is that they remain consistant

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

I've always had them at 3/2 and even, depending upon distance.

If you are going to take Bris numbers to task, you are behind the curve already. Maybe even more behind the curve than Beyers numbers guys.

The reason to get BRIS forms is for the pace with the E1/E2 and Late pace numbers.

I find their E1/E2 and late pace numbers to be totally inaccurate and utterly USELESS...and their speed ratings are garbage as well. The numbers are consistent, though...so I guess THAT'S something...

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

Well that's it, thask.....if you stay with the same figures....all you can ask is that they remain consistant

You should have given me a little time to fix up my post, Greg.

[no breathalyzer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I find their E1/E2 and late pace numbers to be totally inaccurate and utterly USELESS...and their speed ratings are garbage as well. The numbers are consistent, though...so I guess THAT'S something...

a bit harsh there

[Speed Figure]

Points Per Length

4.0 = 2.50
4.5 = 2.22 
5.0 = 2.00
5.5 = 1.81
6.0 = 1.66
6.5 = 1.54
7.0 = 1.42
7.5 = 1.33
8.0 = 1.25
8.5 = 1.18
9.0 = 1.11
9.5 = 1.05
10  = 1.00
11  = 0.91
12  = 0.83

[Tom]

Correct.
10/distance in furlongs

Search for Secretariat - he posted some BRIS info a couple of moths ago.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

Points Per Length

4.0 = 2.50
4.5 = 2.22 
5.0 = 2.00
5.5 = 1.81
6.0 = 1.66
6.5 = 1.54
7.0 = 1.42
7.5 = 1.33
8.0 = 1.25
8.5 = 1.18
9.0 = 1.11
9.5 = 1.05
10  = 1.00
11  = 0.91
12  = 0.83

This is correct! 1 pt per length in routes and 1 1/2 pts in sprints is incorrect. Their speed figures' points per length vary with each distance.

However, their pace figures are not variable for each distance:

Unlike the BRIS Speed Ratings which employ a differing points-per-length scale depending on the race distance, the BRIS Pace Ratings use a fixed scale of 2-points-per-length for all pace calls (2f,4f, etc.) - regardless of the race distance. The fixed 2-points-per-length scale is based on the fact that, regardless of the entire race's distance, the ground covered for any given pace call (2f,4f,etc.) is the same - that is, a 1/4 mile call is equal to two furlongs regardless of whether the entire race is six furlongs or ten furlongs (1 1/4 miles). Since the pace calls being measured are equivalent across differing distances ( a 1/2 mile call in a sprint is the same distance as a 1/2 mile call in a route), the BRIS Pace Ratings use the same 2-points-per-length scaling for all pace calls across all distances.

This of course, brings much controversy into the conversation. To say that a 1st call of 22 seconds in a short race is the same as 22 seconds in a longer distance, is just --- crazy. Plus, the 1st call is not the same distance in all sprints, nor the same in all routes, because the run-up differs, which should be reflected in the pace figure for E1, as well as for E2, and of course, for the speed figure. the difference in 1st call distance affects not just E1, but also E2, because E2 includes E1, and the total distance is also affected, meaning that the speed figure should also reflect the run-up differences. And, as we all know, the run-up distance can vary greatly, up to 90 feet, or more (90 feet could equal 8-9 lengths!!), at the same track, at the same race distance, on the same day. Of course, Brisnet doesn't even publish the run-up distances in their data files or PDFs (as of the last time I looked at their data files), so it's obvious that they either; don't care at all, or they don't think the user needs to have that data. Thankfully, the JCapper/HDW data files do include that run-up data.

[ebcorde]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I find their E1/E2 and late pace numbers to be totally inaccurate and utterly USELESS...and their speed ratings are garbage as well. The numbers are consistent, though...so I guess THAT'S something...

you are partially correct, you have to use the Quirin as well.

with a recent change in my own program I can take their numbers and produce an output almost .. I say almost the same as Thorograph. The last 3 weeks I've compared my numbers with Thorograph so far, so good. I'm hopeful.

[ebcorde]

Originally Posted by no breathalyzer

a bit harsh there

what's useless is THEIR own rules. They impose what they think matters.
something I learned from watching races across the pond.

They stretch Horses out over there all the time. Melbourne cup is 2 miles, they throw a 1-1/4 horse in there.

Horse never on turf, never ran the distance, win a lot. early speed is key because slow is always slow no matter the distance. Horse can learn when to use that speed.