Religion II

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by hcap

In remember you once lied about not "'doing" videos.

Btw, yes we all lie but you lie to yourself more than any poster here.

If you are brave enough to watch either the first video about children and dogs loving with no "original sin" at all , or the second, a beautiful Christian Shaker song, written and composed in 1848 by Elder Joseph Brackett, you might re-think your absurd and contemptible "law of universal distrust" (or mistrust), and you would learn something about love and compassion. My suspicion is if youtube and the internet and this song were around back then, your boy Calvin might have lightened up some.

The lyrics are fine, but both the lyrics and music together are good for your always sour, bitter disposition

'Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free
'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
'Twill be in the valley of love and delight.
When true simplicity is gained,
To bow and to bend we shan't be ashamed,
To turn, turn will be our delight,
Till by turning, turning we come 'round right.

Aaron Copland incorporated the Quaker hymn Simple Gifts in his beautiful piece, Appalachian Spring. It is a very moving part of the composition.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Do you see the world in only black and white? You seem to judge everyone as perfect or not perfect with no middle ground


No!

No

Maybe

Get one of these to remind you justice uses balance without bias

Time + Chance = about half the world being perfect if humans are born with no moral bias.

And by the way....the is NO middle ground with perfect. The Law of Excluded Middle applies. One is either perfect or NOT. Period.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Wrong! The wiretap is indirect evidence of indirect evidence. First the wiretap itself is a recording. The recording is an arrangement of thousands of magnetic domains on a tape. Those domains are evidence that the air pressure in the room where the microphone was located varied in a certain way. The assumption is that that variation was due to the vibrations of someone's vocal cords. Etc., etc., etc. The chain continues all the way to nerves in someone's ears. None of it is direct evidence.

No,it isn't because voices are recognizable. So, the identities of the speaker or speakers is/are known. It would be no different than eavesdropping outside a window or door and listening first hand to a conversation.

And by the way, if recording technology is so imperfect and unreliable and untrustworthy, how much more infinitely more complex technology that "sees" and "hears" and "measures" things of the universe?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Now, you're catching on! How could you not respect hundreds (if not more) of language scholars when they have done exactly what you say I should do!!!

The only thing that counts is that I have a very good understanding of Jesus' Gospel Message of Life. And that is infinitely more knowledge and understanding than you have of the counsel of God.

You mean you couldn't tell that I was kidding when I said that? You'll never get to the bottom of Christianity's real meaning, Boxcar. You are destined to remain exactly as you are; just as deluded as the rest of us "unbelievers"...whom you enjoy belittling. Only your vanity prevents you from seeing how similar you are to those whom you ridicule.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You mean you couldn't tell that I was kidding when I said that? You'll never get to the bottom of Christianity's real meaning, Boxcar. You are destined to remain exactly as you are; just as deluded as the rest of us "unbelievers"...whom you enjoy belittling. Only your vanity prevents you from seeing how similar you are to those whom you ridicule.

Oh...like you're kidding now by telling me that I'm steeped in the same dark pit of ignorance that you are? I know misery LOVES company -- but you're going to have hang out with the rest of the infidels on this thread.

And what I'm destined for is heaven, thanks for God's unspeakable gift of grace, which came at the inestimable expense of Christ's life. I'm destined to be glorified and have the same kind of spiritual body as Christ and to live with and enjoy God's presence for all eternity.

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
NASB

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Oh...like you're kidding now by telling me that I'm steeped in the same dark pit of ignorance that you are? I know misery LOVES company -- but you're going to have hang out with the rest of the infidels on this thread.

And what I'm destined for is heaven, thanks for God's unspeakable gift of grace, which came at the inestimable expense of Christ's life. I'm destined to be glorified and have the same kind of spiritual body as Christ and to live with and enjoy God's presence for all eternity.

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
NASB

"Vanity of vanities; all is vanity."

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

"Vanity of vanities; all is vanity."

Well....at least you believe something in scripture. Congratulations. This is the good news. The bad news, though, is that the passage pertains only to things of this world that "under the sun", which doesn't include divine revelation. But you deserve an "e" for effort.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Aaron Copland incorporated the Quaker hymn Simple Gifts in his beautiful piece, Appalachian Spring. It is a very moving part of the composition.

I know and think it is wonderful. The Yo-Yo Ma and Alison Krauss version I posted I thought, with innocent beautiful children, might stir boxcar's humanity and might make him question Total Depravity

I way underestimated his inhumanity.
Hey box another chance to consider a simpler way.

YouTube (Short URL)

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by hcap

I know and think it is wonderful. The Yo-Yo Ma and Alison Krauss version I posted I thought, with innocent beautiful children, might stir boxcar's humanity and might make him question Total Depravity

More of those "depraved" children...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...aa&action=view

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Time + Chance = about half the world being perfect if humans are born with no moral bias.

And by the way....the is NO middle ground with perfect. The Law of Excluded Middle applies. One is either perfect or NOT. Period.

There is plenty of middle ground. In fact ....The Middle Way or Middle Path is the term that Gautama Buddha used to describe the character of the Noble Eightfold Path he discovered that leads to liberation. In this sutta, the Buddha describes the Noble Eightfold Path as the middle way of moderation, between the extremes of sensual indulgence and self-mortification:[2]


No, there are no laws of logic you always attempt to use to somehow PROVE either any of your religious theses or your 11 part pseudo-scientific thesis of monstrous claptrap of scientific falsehoods

Word of advice give up logic.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

More of those "depraved" children...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...aa&action=view

Evil, I say Evil.

I particularly like dogs and kids playing. Cats also. I guess we are not playing fair tugging the box's heartstrings.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And by the way, if recording technology is so imperfect and unreliable and untrustworthy, how much more infinitely more complex technology that "sees" and "hears" and "measures" things of the universe?

I never said said the recording technology is "unreliable and untrustworthy." My thesis is simply that all observation is indirect. You are the one who insists that only direct observation is reliable and trustworthy. You then commit the fallacy of special pleading by claiming that you are exempt from the rules you impose on others, i.e., you admit that no one directly observed theistic creation.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

There is plenty of middle ground. In fact ....The Middle Way or Middle Path is the term that Gautama Buddha used to describe the character of the Noble Eightfold Path he discovered that leads to liberation. In this sutta, the Buddha describes the Noble Eightfold Path as the middle way of moderation, between the extremes of sensual indulgence and self-mortification:[2]


No, there are no laws of logic you always attempt to use to somehow PROVE either any of your religious theses or your 11 part pseudo-scientific thesis of monstrous claptrap of scientific falsehoods

Word of advice give up logic.

First of all look up the definition of "perfect" and tell us where exactly is the middle ground between perfect and imperfect. There are plenty of things in life where there is no middle ground. Consider pregnancy, as one. Death as another. Another one is holiness, for without it, no one will ever see God, etc.

Word of advice: Go to night school and learn some logic.

So, tell us: Have you ever lied in your life?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Evil, I say Evil.

I particularly like dogs and kids playing. Cats also. I guess we are not playing fair tugging the box's heartstrings.

You're confusing our essence for innocence and acts with our nature. The paradox is that children are innocent of any personal wrongdoing because they have no understanding of good and evil; yet one day they will inevitably have that understanding because of their sinful nature.

Children could be likened to the Slow Loris who is cute, furry and cuddly but an adult can inflict one of the most painful bites known in the world.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

First of all look up the definition of "perfect" and tell us where exactly is the middle ground between perfect and imperfect. There are plenty of things in life where there is no middle ground. Consider pregnancy, as one. Death as another. Another one is holiness, for without it, no one will ever see God, etc.

Word of advice: Go to night school and learn some logic.

So, tell us: Have you ever lied in your life?

You not only should drop trying to use logic, but see someone about paying attention and awful memory. You framed this discussion of total depravity with no middle ground

Originally Posted by boxcar

Stats? On what do you need stats? Don't you know that ALL people in this world are morally flawed? But this would be impossible, statistically, if everyone comes into the world in a morally neutral state. Everyone but you, apparently, knows this fact. There are no morally perfectly human beings in existence -- unless you're going to declare yourself as an exemption.

You claimed there "There are no morally perfectly human beings in existence"

I objected and told you stop thinking in rock solid Dualities. I posted "Justice"
with balancing scales and without bias. Remember?