Missouri riots

[Jay Trotter]

So, JR and MB, you guys are saying that African Americans as a cultural group are not the equal of other groups? That somehow, in some form, they have a defect that puts them on the road to a less civilized way of life?

[fast4522]

President Lincoln correctly once said, if you want to make someone your property you have to take care of them for the rest of their life.
If someone could correct me with the exact quote I would be interested, I came across this years ago.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

So, JR and MB, you guys are saying that African Americans as a cultural group are not the equal of other groups? That somehow, in some form, they have a defect that puts them on the road to a less civilized way of life?

No. What I am saying is that over the last 2-3 generations, not just blacks, but Other groups in the U.S. as well, have devolved culturally to a point that their specific culture tolerates criminal actions beyond that of other cultures.

These cultures are linked in one way or another. Specifically very low socio economic groups who rely on government, or the system, have this trait in common. I have seen it in rural WV and Ohio and Kentucky. The common social elements are drug use, usually crack in the black community, Meth in the White community, and marihuana in both. I'm talking pervasive use. Not casual use. You can include heroin and illegal prescription drugs also. The term Hillbilly heroin in Appalachia is a real thing.

The same exact type of people I encountered in Maryland were openly using and tolerating heroin use. They were also dependent on Food stamps and other Government programs. Traveling from Anne Arundel county to PG county to "load up" was a real thing. These individuals were identical in thinking and personality as those I encountered in Appalachia who were using Oxy-cotton.

Both groups were the similar in nature to blacks I encountered in Charlotte. When you can subsist on government programs this enables you to dedicate yourself to your particular habit. Wherever you live or no matter your choice of drug. As long as you are part of the permanent underclass, supported by your government, it changes people. I've seen it from coast to coast in this country.

We as a country tolerate it and enable it. I don't think the do gooders of the sixties anticipated a change in the culture of those they "saved" but it doesn't matter now. It happened. Nobody has the guts to fix it and nobody has the gall to portray it as a political issue. Why? Because this underclass gets to vote.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by fast4522

President Lincoln correctly once said, if you want to make someone your property you have to take care of them for the rest of their life.
If someone could correct me with the exact quote I would be interested, I came across this years ago.

Can't find that quote, but ran across this one from Lincoln this morning. I wish we could hand out justice like this in our more 'civilized' world.

Lincoln - Back when I rode the legal circuit in Illinois, I defended a woman from Metamora named Melissa Goings, 77 years-old. They said she murdered her husband, he was 83. He was choking her and she grabbed a-hold of a stick of firewood and fractured his skull and he died. In his will he wrote: 'I suspect she has killed me. If I get over it, I will have revenge.' No one was keen to see her convicted, he was that kind of husband. I asked the prosecuting attorney if I might have a short conference with my client. And she and I went into a room in the courthouse, but I alone emerged. The window in the room was found to be wide open. It was believed the old lady may have climbed out of it. I told the bailiff right before. I left her in the room she asked me where she could get a good drink of water, and I told her Tennessee. Mrs. Goings was seen no more in Metamora. Enough justice had been done; they even forgave the bondsman her bail.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's embarrassing how Trotter is intentionally trying to miss the very simple and basic explanations Ralph is giving as to why things are the way they are.

Trotter jumps at the chance, in his most recent reply, to try and trap JR into appearing to be someone who believes blacks and minorities are somehow genetically or natively inferior in some way, when that wasn't at all what Ralph has been saying recently...Trotter knows exactly what JR is saying, he knows it makes complete and total sense, and yet, he can't bring himself to even entertain the notion that Democrats/Government policies are responsible for most of the ills facing economically depressed minority AS WELL AS WHITE communities...

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

It's not a "colour" issue, it's a "poverty" issue.

Even if it is a poverty issue (I personally suspect that what may start out as a poverty issue can become cultural), we should be able to discuss and use those stats to our benefit without fear of attack and destruction from idealists.

If I walked into a bar and saw a bunch of white bikers with loads of piercings and tattoos whooping it up, I'd go to another bar. For all I know they could all be very bright harmless guys that just like riding bikes. But I'd rather take my chances in a bar full of people wearing business attire stopping out for a drink before their evening commute home.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter
It's not a "colour" issue, it's a "poverty" issue.

I agree.
Who can forget the Appalachian Riots in the early 60's, or the March on Hootersville, of the "Hill Bill-ion" Man March?

Or that immortal speech, "I have been to the mountain, and I have seen the other side. It was Bugtussle."

[Jay Trotter]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It's embarrassing how Trotter is intentionally trying to miss the very simple and basic explanations Ralph is giving as to why things are the way they are.

Wow, what a "dickish" comment!

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Tom

I agree.
Who can forget the Appalachian Riots in the early 60's, or the March on Hootersville, of the "Hill Bill-ion" Man March?

Or that immortal speech, "I have been to the mountain, and I have seen the other side. It was Bugtussle."

Post of the year!

PA, I saw the bait and swam right past it......

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Yeah, that's the ticket!

I worked in predominately white area, in the 90's and I worked SoCal, San Bernardino County in the 80's as one of those terrible racial profiling cops. Back then it wasn't called racial profiling. It was called police work.

Now, if I buy off on your theory, then whites are committing just as many crimes as minorities. It's the cops choosing to stop minorities that skew the numbers. Then why when the cops are stopping only whites, all day long every day, those cops aren't locking up just as many whites? Percentage wise? If your theory is correct then white guys are carrying guns, selling crack and "holding' just as much and just as often as minorities.

You are ignoring completely the cultural differences. That's why your full of crap. Young black men packing guns is a cultural normality. There are no objections or barriers to such within the culture. For whatever reason it's accepted and tolerated by friends and associates. I would express that the same holds true in Hispanic culture with knives. A pistol is not uncommon, but knives are akin to a wallet in a white guys pocket.

Young white men carrying guns must be very secretive in their world. Their peers will call the police on them. I've been through it multiple times. White Wives will call the police and tell on their husbands. Just because it is not an accepted practice in the culture. Half ass want to be white teenage thugs will tip off their own parents or approach a school cop or the like the minute any of their peers brandishes a gun. It's cultural. It's not poverty related. It's not oppression, it's cultural. It's exactly the same with other crimes. Drugs, robbery etc.

I blame the permanent status of the underclass as altering the mindset of black culture. Blacks tolerate criminal activity in their community, but only in the last 2-3 generations. Black men and women in their 70's and 80's will narc out their neighbor and even their own child in a minute. They have a different perspective. They are not in the same cultural era as their younger neighbors.

It's complicated. But if you don't see it at the street level, you don't see the whole picture. The us versus them mentality of today will never allow minorities to ascend. As a group that is. Unless they purposely decide to leave the herd. I urge the young minority men who I come into contact with to break away from herd mentality. Believe it or not I had this conversation just a few nights ago with two young men who work for my wife.

There is definitely a difference between the last 2 generations of blacks vs. the 70 yr olds you speak of. The last 2 or 3 are sons from civil rights era where a lot of black people marched or fought for change, and through so many bad experiences were more distrustful of authority. They became more aggressive in their behavior. The 70 yr old's are sons from a generation that said keep quiet, tip your hat, move out of the way and constantly say yes sir and yes ma'am to anyone white. So they are much less aggressive and just grateful to be left alone. They're two totally different mentalities.

[fast4522]

Putting skin color aside for just a minute, I see no difference generally with now or the 70's. Back then they were looking for someone to tell them what they wanted to hear, same mindset today and absolutely no gain in 50 years as a people because of it. What has changed somewhat is that there are less of them willing to actually be a father to their offspring or have any respect to the women who bore their children. This goes way way beyond sad, just like the national debt that no one wants to talk about it.

[highnote]

Opinion piece by Roy L. Clay, Sr. He was a Silicon Valley tech pioneer and grew up in Ferguson and had an encounter with the Ferguson police as a young man.

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/c...on-valley-tech

(Editor's note: Roy Clay Sr., a Silicon Valley technology pioneer, was a key figure in the development of Hewlett-Packard's computer division and in the 1970s served on the Palo Alto City Council, two of the years as vice mayor. But he grew up in Ferguson, Mo. In this essay, he offers a personal perspective on the community where Michael Brown was shot and killed Aug. 9.)

As I celebrate my 85th birthday this week, I think of how close I came to being Michael Brown.

Fortunately, I survived my encounter with the Ferguson police. But it says a great deal that young Mr. Brown will not have the opportunity I had to attend college, build a career and raise a family. Hopefully, my story will help explain why that makes us all the poorer.

[rest of piece at link above]

[Tom]

In this essay, he offers a personal perspective on the community where Michael Brown was shot and killed Aug. 9.)

No, he did not.
That many years ago, all different people.
His perspective is history.

The video of the thug robbing the store is more relevant.
The broken eye socket, or at least facial wound is more relevant.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Tom

No, he did not.
That many years ago, all different people.
His perspective is history.

The video of the thug robbing the store is more relevant.
The broken eye socket, or at least facial wound is more relevant.

I thought his point was that the world is poorer because the world never got the chance to see what kind of person Michael Brown might have become.

[Tom]

Or safer.
We have him on tape.