All hail Cleveland........and Cuyahoga county

[JustRalph]

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2...imited_jo.html

6000 applied for 300 jobs
The longtime Dem Stronghold of Cuyahoga county is in bad shape..........

With people like Kucinich and cleveland politicians representing them........nothing will ever change................

[Tom]

Yes it will, Ralph....it will only get worse.

The defeatocrats breed failure.

[MikeDee]

I assume you read the entire article including the following:

It could have been worse. In Illinois recently, Masten said, 25,000 and 15,000 people applied at two Wal-Mart stores in the Chicago area, and neither of those is a large Supercenter.

As long as the business leaders in this country continue to export all possible jobs to China and India we will continue on the road to being a country with 4 classes of people.

The rich
The people who shop at Wal-Mart
The people who work at Wal-Mart
The people who apply for Jobs at Wal-Mart

Sadly, even some PA posters and dimwitted Republicans could not now get a job there.

"Or it's possible some workers see Wal-Mart as one of the few employment options available to them. Masten said Wal-Mart considers people with zero work experience and demands only that applicants be able to read, write and speak English, possess identification and pass a drug test. "


Even then the resident pair of PA far right loonies try to make hate capital out of the economic distress caused to their own country folks. Sad the national problems can't even start to be put right until 2009.

"Amy Hanauer, executive director of Policy Matters Ohio, said she finds these ratios "deeply troubling," reminiscent of bread lines in times of great poverty. She said the figures paint a bleak portrait of the regional job market and underscore the need for more and better employment opportunities.

"That's Depression-era kind of imagery," she said. ". . . You can't have an economy that works that way. It speaks to the need to generate a different kind of employment in Cleveland"

[The Judge]

There must be some money around town somewhere. I don't think the rich are shopping at Wal-Mart so somebody has some money in Cleveland along with the rich. If you shop at Wal-Mart you drive there,gas is expensive if you look in the parking lot there are new cars and good cars, I mean there aren't a bunch of wrecks there.

Its strange I know things are bad for alot of people. I am starting to think that being poor in the USA doesn't mean the same thing as it may have meant some years ago it certainly doesn't mean the same thing as in other countries, here even the poor can shop.

This doesn't mean things are great in Cleveland it just shows that there is still some money around for now. If real jobs keep leaving this country Wal - Mart will feel the squeeze along with everyone else.

Of course as long as your credit is good you can shop.

[Tom]

Right on the money, Judge. Poor is a realtive term.
Many of the people the dems whine about not having health insurance have cable, or dish TV, two cars, microwave ovens, yadda yadda. They are hardly poor - thay have made poor choices. They prefer thier 500 channels over HC, so I should pack up the tab for it.

The problem with business outsourcing is shared by both parties - the repubs could care less as long as they get thier bribe money, er, I mean lobbyist welfare, and the dems want to tax them out existence.

Does anyone think maybe Wal Mart jobs are far beynd the capabilities of many people? What value is there in the greeter?

[ljb]

The economic conditions in Cleveland should come as a surprise to no one. The corporate sponsored Republican/neocons have always made their decisions based on only one thing... The Bottom Line. As mentioned earlier in this thread, they export decent paying jobs and import illegals to perform jobs that cannot be exported, at lower wages. This leads to a lower standard of living for good hard working American middle class folks.
The only thing sadder then this condition is the apparent glee which a couple of posters here seem to display at this economic disaster for the good people of Cleveland.

[delayjf]

Many of the people the dems whine about not having health insurance have cable, or dish TV, two cars, microwave ovens, yadda yadda. They are hardly poor

Indeed, like that family, the Demwits paraded in front of the Nation as victoms when President Bush vetoed the SCHIP bill.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by delayjf

Indeed, like that family, the Demwits paraded in front of the Nation as victoms when President Bush vetoed the SCHIP bill.

Did you mis-spell SCHIP Bill?

[rastajenk]

Those economic conditions of Cleveland aren't the same as down here in the southwestern part of the same state. Same greedy Republican/neocon (what does foreign affairs have to do with it, anyway) controlled corporations shipping jobs overseas, but somehow things are different here. Maybe it's the water or the air or something, but I get the feeling it has more to do with politics.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by robert99

Even then the resident pair of PA far right loonies try to make hate capital out of the economic distress caused to their own country folks. Sad the national problems can't even start to be put right until 2009.

Listen Robert. Nobody is making "hate capital" I am pointing out that the people of this area continually re-elect Democratic leadership that continues to get nothing done. I have an interest in the area. I own a home near this specific area. I live there part time. I also own a home in the Columbus Ohio area and the same problems exist in each place. Two hours apart from each other. Long time Dem leadership has either sold them out or ignored the problems of the city. They talk and talk about fixing things, but never get anything done. Both of my homes are in suburbs of these areas, but are affected terribly by the failure to perform of Cleveland and Columbus. Columbus is much better off than Cleveland, mostly due to the economic influence of Ohio State University. Take OSU out of Columbus and it would resemble Cleveland in many ways.

Both cities have long time Democratic administrations (Council and Mayor) who continually churn problems through the system, throw money at them and sit back and watch as the areas fail over and over again. They fail to address any cultural issues, just throw money at problems. Well, the money has dried up in both cities. Very little is left and nobody is willing to pay anymore. Hell, nobody lives in the cities anymore, except those who can't afford to get out to the suburbs. And those persons left in the city, good or bad don't make any changes when it is time to choose candidates. This hasn't been that big an issue until the last ten years or so. The cities have mandated huge taxes on business (Airports, Hotel Rooms etc) and nobody wants to do business in either city.

Recently the noted Scholar Charles Barkley visited the city of Cleveland for the NBA finals. After spending 3 days in Cleveland he went on ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" and scolded the city of Cleveland for what "it has become" and implored Lebron James to take "some of his money" and help the city.

Past failures are coming home to roost. In the Columbus Area Honda of America was coaxed away from Columbus to a city 35 miles northwest, because the administration at the time in Columbus (this was 25 years ago) didn't have the foresight to understand that "all business" coming to the city would be a future advantage. They refused incentives etc. Honda of America pumps over 35 million dollars into the economy 35 miles northwest of Columbus and has so for the last twenty five years. This was a huge mistake in Columbus.

In Cleveland there are other failures of the same magnitude. There were tax incentives for the Professional teams, NBA and MLB. They have gone on for years. There are a few studies out there that now prove that both of these teams actually push the deal into red ink that is made up by the city. The players live in the Western suburbs and the western suburbs flourish. Upscale homes etc. But even now those suburbs are feeling the pinch from the failures of the city of Cleveland. The hordes who flock to the games all live in suburbs and now that the Auto plants are failing (Ford and GM) the city is about to undergo what may be the toughest times since the depression. By 2010 somewhere between 3200-5000 auto workers (depending on buyout participants) will be out of work in the areas around Cleveland. The average salary of these workers exceeds 60 Grand. You do the math. Taking that much money out of the economy surrounding Cleveland has already had an enormous effect on the housing market. Nobody who has already been notified that their jobs are going away is planning on staying, if you can believe the for sale signs everywhere. They are all selling their homes, or at least attempting to. Throw five thousand homes into the market in a short period of time coupled with the market already being the worst in twenty years and you are going to see a failure of the housing market on the magnitude of the great depression. In Columbus the city is trying to figure out how to deal with thousands of homes that have been foreclosed on. The police are now dealing with squatters who are moving into abandoned homes. The Banks normally have a six month backlog before they even get out to inspect abandoned/foreclosed homes and the criminal element is now setting up meth labs and such in the normally placid areas of the city. Including the suburbs of Columbus.

The city of Columbus just inherited a mall in downtown Columbus that was basically abandoned by the owners. These same owners who accepted tax incentives and other inducements for the mall. The crime and other factors of which the city failed to address, produced an environment wherein nobody dared go downtown in Columbus. Macy's and others ran. Gang Activity and such setup the suburban areas for similar flight that occurred in the housing market. Malls were built in the suburbs and the downtown died. Another failure by the Dem Administrations, glossed over. Oh Btw, inherited might be inaccurate. The city actually purchased the mall in some kind of stupid agreement, for the bargain basement price of 2.8 million dollars. So the owners not only ran, they got paid to leave. The newly re-elected Dem Mayor M. Coleman (some of you may remember him from the Glenn Beck show) says that "the city will turn the property around" more failure in the offing......at the expense of tax payers.

So as you can see from these few examples......the status Que lives on and the sheep continue to elect those who are fighting for "the poor" whilst they continue to make them even more poor. And the cultural and economic problems get worse. It is a sad state of affairs. And pointing it out is not making "hate capital" I have a dog in the fight............and it is a good example of why this State is failing in so many areas .

Btw, if you think that electing a Dem in 2008 will help, you are crazy. Take the tax cuts away, raise taxes and you pound the nails in the coffin of these areas.

[JustRalph]

oh yeah, I forgot to point out that most of this area is served by that great intellect from Congress...........the Honorable Elf himself..........

Dennis Kucinich

[ljb]

JR,
Lottsa words. You are speaking of international companies. Local government has little control over what international companies do. The American based auto companies have been in trouble for years here. This is partly caused by legacy costs and unfair trade policies. I doubt if the city council in either Cleveland or Columbus could have a major impact on these international circumstances. Yes they could give tax breaks to the corporations which would take them and show more profit only to pull out as soon as the tax breaks expired. Meanwhile you and I are paying taxes to provide the services required to support these corporate facilities. In this day and age a facility 35 miles outside a city is not to be considered out sourcing. No, this is not a problem caused by the local government, this is a problem caused by the corporate lobbyists that currently control our federal government.

[JustRalph]

ok........you can tell this issue has me fired up huh?

Originally Posted by ljb

JR,
Lottsa words. You are speaking of international companies. Local government has little control over what international companies do.

Bullshit! The 13% bed Tax on Hotels keeps anybody from coming. It doesn't discriminate based on company size or location. If you come to Columbus to do business you pay it. You setup shop in Columbus and the local confiscatory inventory taxes take hold. There are others. Locals don't come to Columbus either. They know better. I used to have to pay this "bed" tax when I rented an Airplane in one of the Airports in the Franklin County area. They actually tacked it on to anything to do with the Airports and hotels. Two hours of flying cost $30 bucks more in Columbus. When you are a flight student........$30 bucks means something. I started flying from an Airport five minutes across the county line. I also later hangered my plane there (gas was cheaper, no bed tax) and spent thousands of dollars in the repair shop etc......five minutes outside the border of the bed tax. This tax was also put on rental cars and such. It remains today. These companies see a tax and spend council and government that thinks that they can fix all of their problems with a tax increase. These companies know the climate. They know that they will be the target of future tax increases. They will gravitate away from it

The American based auto companies have been in trouble for years here. This is partly caused by legacy costs and unfair trade policies. I doubt if the city council in either Cleveland or Columbus could have a major impact on these international circumstances.

Not particularly, agreed to an extent but their reliance on and their dependence on just these types of companies is what makes them think they can ignore other businesses who need incentives to come to town. The fact that these autoworkers don't live in the city and choose the suburbs, has robbed (quite literally) the city of millions of dollars over the last 25 years. How much stronger would the city be if the dollars spent in the suburbs were actually in the coffers of the city businesses? Ignoring and practically encouraging flight from the cities hurts everybody. The city governments have this responsibility right in their laps. The city governments are responsible for crime and the state of the neighborhoods. This includes the school systems who invented "white flight" while trying to force liberal causes down the throats of citizens. Instead of naturally occurring societal changes.....which were coming.......an entire generation opted out........leaving the cities behind. This is a classic example of why inner cities have failed due to liberal causes.

Yes they could give tax breaks to the corporations which would take them and show more profit only to pull out as soon as the tax breaks expired.

Wrong. Several suburbs have dealt with this and in the agreements they have put in penalty clauses that keep this from happening. If the company pulls out they have to pay a penalty. These have been upheld by the courts too. If the company goes Tits up and files bankruptcy the city becomes a compensated creditor just like everybody else.

Meanwhile you and I are paying taxes to provide the services required to support these corporate facilities. In this day and age a facility 35 miles outside a city is not to be considered out sourcing. No, this is not a problem caused by the local government, this is a problem caused by the corporate lobbyists that currently control our federal government.

You cannot ignore the control local governments have over the areas. The biggest mistake they make is not governing from the right position. They are more concerned with being socially liberal than fiscally sound for the future.
I don't know what the hell you mean by the outsourcing comment above, but it is not germane to my argument...as far as I can see. The company I mentioned just crossed Columbus off its list of locations. It has nothing to do with outsourcing.

Recently the same thing happen with Toyota. A location near Toledo was being considered for a Toyota plant. The State couldn't get the job done the last I read the plant is being built in Indiana. This Toyota factory will sustain the area for at least the next 25 years. Can you imagine Toyota going out of business? All the stops should have been pulled out to land this factory. Nope, they couldn't get it done. More failure on the part of government. Local Government.

[ljb]

Again lottsa words.
Have you ever been out of Ohio ? Columbus is not the only place in this country that has bullshit taxes. See Jr, communities must provide certain basic services police protection, fire protection, utilities etc. If they fail to provide these services they fail and are no longer communities. Step two they must have funds to provide those services. Where they get the money is the primary contentious issue. You have gone to length to tell us what you don't like about Columbus's methods of obtaining these funds. Where do you suggest they get the moneys needed to provide such services ?