THE DEMISE OF RACING???

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

its actually pretty simple, they give the bettors what they want. very rigid rules and regulations, owning horses there is a an honor. any injury small or large is a public matter. if you get caught using drugs you go to jail. the betting pools are strictly policed at all times to make sure that there is no one getting in after the start of the race.

owner's can only own 2 horses, trainers are limited in the amount of horses that they can train as well. they have a very common sense approach to the sport.

Wow, that sounds like the exact opposite of what we run over here.

[PatCummings]

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.

Racing is incredibly easy to understand - almost every race is a handicap - horses have a numerical rating, races are run for horses within a certain rating level, and handicapped based on that rating (yes, with weights, typically 135 down to about 110). To me, this makes getting a grasp on a race straightforward. No claimers, no starters.

[WP1981]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.

Racing is incredibly easy to understand - almost every race is a handicap - horses have a numerical rating, races are run for horses within a certain rating level, and handicapped based on that rating (yes, with weights, typically 135 down to about 110). To me, this makes getting a grasp on a race straightforward. No claimers, no starters.

Probably the best write up I have ever read.

Well done, Pat. I want to go there now.

[traynor]

I think anyone who is serious about horse racing owes it to himself or herself to do a bit of exploring--especially the Asia-Pacific racing circuit. Australia is okay, but the Hong Kong circuit and Japan circuit are about as good as it gets. Especially for those more jaded among us who also enjoy blackjack and baccarat. Sha Tin by day and Macau by night is a VERY nice life.

[Dave Schwartz]

They don't have 35 tracks running and only run two days a week.

Exactly.

Think of the $101b as around $14b USD. If memory serves HK runs 35 weeks x 2 cards per week, so this is effectively $14b USD in 70 cards!

70 cards is about 1 single Saturday in the US during the summer months.

So, HK's handle would be like ALL of the US handle coming down on a single Saturday!



A Story About Japan Racing
In 2002 I was in Japan consulting for a "new group." Coincidently, it was at this time of the year and I actually had an opportunity to attend the World Cup finals!

One Saturday morning my host (a westerner) asked me if I wanted to watch him play. Of course I said "Yes."

First, he asked me if I had ever seen 3/4 of a million dollars in cash before. He took out an Adidas bag that was about 30" x 12" x 12". It was about 40% full. (The money was in Yen.)

Then he asked me if I had ever been to a "betting shop." I laughed and said, "I am from Nevada, so, yes, I have seen a few 'betting shops.'" In my mind I held a picture of a hole-in-the-wall with about 8 ticket writers. LOL - No idea why, but I pictured the old Hollywood Racebook in Las Vegas.

We take a train into town and head to the "WINS." Imagine my surprise when it turns out that the "betting shop" is an 8-story building with 125 ticket writers per floor!

We get there and the first order of business is for him to collect almost $2m from previous bets. (It barely fit into the bag, BTW.)

The 4th floor of the WINS is for "big" players. On that floor, each bettor has his own computer and his own private ticket writer that sits across from him. The bets are typically made programatically by the bettor. If he runs into a problem keying a wager, he simply tells his private ticket writer what to do and he writes the ticket for him.

Get this: On a typical day my guy wagers around $1m USD. He is not a big enough bettor to qualify to bet on the 4th floor!

[nearco]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Exactly.

Think of the $101b as around $14b USD. If memory serves HK runs 35 weeks x 2 cards per week, so this is effectively $14b USD in 70 cards!

70 cards is about 1 single Saturday in the US during the summer months.

So, HK's handle would be like ALL of the US handle coming down on a single Saturday!



A Story About Japan Racing
In 2002 I was in Japan consulting for a "new group." Coincidently, it was at this time of the year and I actually had an opportunity to attend the World Cup finals!

One Saturday morning my host (a westerner) asked me if I wanted to watch him play. Of course I said "Yes."

First, he asked me if I had ever seen 3/4 of a million dollars in cash before. He took out an Adidas bag that was about 30" x 12" x 12". It was about 40% full. (The money was in Yen.)

Then he asked me if I had ever been to a "betting shop." I laughed and said, "I am from Nevada, so, yes, I have seen a few 'betting shops.'" In my mind I held a picture of a hole-in-the-wall with about 8 ticket writers. LOL - No idea why, but I pictured the old Hollywood Racebook in Las Vegas.

We take a train into town and head to the "WINS." Imagine my surprise when it turns out that the "betting shop" is an 8-story building with 125 ticket writers per floor!

We get there and the first order of business is for him to collect almost $2m from previous bets. (It barely fit into the bag, BTW.)

The 4th floor of the WINS is for "big" players. On that floor, each bettor has his own computer and his own private ticket writer that sits across from him. The bets are typically made programatically by the bettor. If he runs into a problem keying a wager, he simply tells his private ticket writer what to do and he writes the ticket for him.

Get this: On a typical day my guy wagers around $1m USD. He is not a big enough bettor to qualify to bet on the 4th floor!

Guy takes a train into town with $750k in cash in an Adidas bag?
Guy's got balls.

[NY BRED]

[QUOTE=PatCummings]The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America

We discussed in a separate agenda tearing down tracks and modernizing
the facilities to draw a younger fan base that has drifted to casinos
or simply is uninterested in racing. Clearly, the physical plant is only
one component and not the sole answer to increase revenue
and attendance at the U S tracks.

HK racing has simply taken a product, no different than the auto and electronic industry and made it incredibly better and user friendly
to draw this fan base and revenue which is light years better
than racing in America.

Us track management should reconsider their agendas and attempt
to mirror the major components mentioned in Pat's advice in an
attempt to regain their old customers and gain new ones.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by CurtisontheBay

This is not meant to be sarcastic. How so ? I am really curious what they do so differently than here in the states.

Hong Kong and the JRA (Japan Racing Association) both have superior racing. No lasix, stringent drug policies, world class state of the art training facilities, a lot of turf races, more stamina races like routes and turf races than sprints (which in my opinion helps horses stay sounder because sprints are harder on horses), vastly less breakdowns than we have here, the horses are much sounder and durable. Workouts are electronically recorded and precisely accurate, no games allowed. I could go on and on, but these racing jurisdictions are the reference point for top quality racing.

[badcompany]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.

Great stuff, Pat.

It sounds like Horseracing is an event sport over there. Hard to imagine that model working here, as the sport would have to compete with baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, Nascar etc.

[traynor]

In regard to the cultural propensity for gambling:

" American teenagers rank below average when it comes to understanding the value of money -- while Chinese kids are the best."
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/09/bu...html?hpt=hp_t4

The difference may be that in the US, bettors are "playing a game." In Hong Kong, bettors may be in the business of betting--an intense competition to gain a bigger share of limited resources. Perhaps they have not been infected with that nonsensical comment, "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. The important thing is how you play the game."

Again, if that seems obscure, it is because one has not spent much time at Sha Tin. Doing so will definitely change one's opinion about whether or not he or she is only "playing a game."

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by WP1981

Probably the best write up I have ever read.

Well done, Pat. I want to go there now.

I would argue that some of the most fun you can have at the races anywhere in the world is a Wednesday night in the beer garden at Happy Valley. It's an incredible experience I cannot recommend enough.

[TheEdge07]

There was a member on this forum who passed away a couple of years ago he was a pro moved to HK and made millions (his name skips my mind)..A article was written about him and his software..
Does anyone know his name?

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Alan Woods (Entropy was his name on this forum)

[TheEdge07]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

Alan Woods (Entropy was his name on this forum)

Yes thank you...article wriiten on Mr.Woods was amazing..anyone has the link?

[TheEdge07]

William Benter also a crushed Hong Kong with his software..At one considered the worlds wealthiest gambler