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03-10-2016, 12:15 PM
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#23761
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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The same biological processes that are causing/ effecting all living forms, including yourself.
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03-10-2016, 12:21 PM
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#23762
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
The same biological processes that are causing/ effecting all living forms, including yourself.
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And what is causing those biological processes to function?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 12:40 PM
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#23763
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Other material causes/ effects...by definition there can be no material evidence of said non material cause/effects...
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03-10-2016, 01:07 PM
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#23764
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Other material causes/ effects...by definition there can be no material evidence of said non material cause/effects...
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And what is causing those other material causes?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 02:04 PM
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#23765
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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My last post sums it up....therefore the material universe is its own cause/ effect...ironically one might say the same thing regarding your presumed diety..... Your diety had no cause. It is its own cause. What's good for the goose ought to be enough for the gander, no?
Are we in agreement then?
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03-10-2016, 02:22 PM
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#23766
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Actor
So why are evangelicals called sheep?
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For obvious reasons...
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"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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03-10-2016, 02:27 PM
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#23767
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Actor
So why are evangelicals called sheep?
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For obvious reasons... |
Because they get sheared! 
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Sapere aude
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03-10-2016, 03:30 PM
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#23768
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
My last post sums it up....therefore the material universe is its own cause/ effect...ironically one might say the same thing regarding your presumed diety..... Your diety had no cause. It is its own cause. What's good for the goose ought to be enough for the gander, no?
Are we in agreement then?
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So, the material universe caused itself?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 03:32 PM
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#23769
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Actor
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Don't get too beside yourself. Unbelievers, in scripture, are called goats.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 03:35 PM
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#23770
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,650
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boxcar
Unbelievers, in scripture, are called goats.
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(G)reatest (O)f (A)ll (T)ime?
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03-10-2016, 04:00 PM
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#23771
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boxcar
So, the material universe caused itself?
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Why not? The universe is a fantastic place full of mystery....My mind cannot imagine a non-material being able to birth THIS MATERIAL ENTITY known as the universe....so what are we left with?
So yes, and isn't that the position that you hold regarding god...
Which is it? That god either created himself? Or was not created at all?....That he has always existed....and will continue to aleways exist....prior to the creation of the known universe and forevermore....long after the known universe fades to black...
I suppose that now you are going to tell me that you know that god was uncreated? Because the bible tells you so....
I don't want to know what the bible tells you....I want to know what YOU THINK....I want to know your own original thoughts on the matter in question....not some canned answer from said sacred 2000 year old religious ideas....
What do you think as the living breathing intelligent individual that YOU ARE...
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03-10-2016, 04:18 PM
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#23772
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
(G)reatest (O)f (A)ll (T)ime?
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They won't think so on Judgment Day when Christ separates His sheep from the goats.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 04:31 PM
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#23773
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Why not? The universe is a fantastic place full of mystery....My mind cannot imagine a non-material being able to birth THIS MATERIAL ENTITY known as the universe....so what are we left with?
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You're left with a violation of the Law of Non-Contradiction; for before a thing can cause itself into existence, it would first have to exist before it existed.
"There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible." - Summa Theologiae I.2.3
"If, then, something were its own cause of being, it would be understood to be before it had being – which is impossible…" - Summa Contra Gentiles I.22.6
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So yes, and isn't that the position that you hold regarding god...
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No, it isn't. Neither is it the position of the bible nor of orthodox Christianity. God is the Uncaused Cause a/k/a the Unmoved Mover. There was never a time when God did not exist, hence his Name in scripture, "I AM"!
Quote:
Which is it? That god either created himself? Or was not created at all?....That he has always existed....and will continue to aleways exist....prior to the creation of the known universe and forevermore....long after the known universe fades to black...
I suppose that now you are going to tell me that you know that god was uncreated? Because the bible tells you so....
I don't want to know what the bible tells you....I want to know what YOU THINK....I want to know your own original thoughts on the matter in question....not some canned answer from said sacred 2000 year old religious ideas....
What do you think as the living breathing intelligent individual that YOU ARE...
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What I think is that your theory is thoroughly self-defeating (self-contradictory), while the only other alternative is not.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-10-2016, 04:40 PM
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#23774
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boxcar
They won't think so on Judgment Day when Christ separates His sheep from the goats.
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Everyday is Judgement Day, my dear Boxcar, and every hour and each minute also...when we make our own decisions to act with kindness and forbearance in our matters toward one another and to our own very selves! One doesn't need to be a christian to do this and no flames of hell will touch the man who does..
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03-10-2016, 04:43 PM
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#23775
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Everyday is Judgement Day, my dear Boxcar, and every hour and each minute also...when we make our own decisions to act with kindness and forbearance in our matters toward one another and to our own very selves! One doesn't need to be a christian to do this and no flames of hell will touch the man who does..
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"The honest man has nothing to fear in this life...or the next." -- Nikos Kazantzakis
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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