Workouts

[PowerUpPaynter]

Good Day,

What do you guys look at when looking at the workouts? Also what is breezing opposed to handily? I never see a definitive answer on that.

[lamboguy]

handily means with a whip. the other question you might have is the g that you often see. that means they worked out of the gate, the ones that didn't started from the pole.

[Rise Over Run]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

handily means with a whip.

So you're going to tell me that every (ok 99.9%) workout at the socal tracks is under the encouragement of a whip?

[Baron Star Gregg]

For other than firsters look at their works in the last 3 weeks. Generally you're looking for 3f in 36 & change, 4f in 48 & change, 5f in 1:00 & change, 6f in 1:13 & change and 7f in 1:27 & change.
Some tracks, such as Santa Anita, you'll need to adjust these. For some trainers, like Asmussen, times don't matter unless they are excessively fast.
A sharp work of 3f just before a race is a typical blowout. 3f works further back in the tab don't necessarily mean a whole lot. Longer works are better. Bullets are good. Sometimes a sharp work on an off track may be helpful information.
The breeze vs handily differs depending on which coast you're on.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Rise Over Run

So you're going to tell me that every (ok 99.9%) workout at the socal tracks is under the encouragement of a whip?

I think Lamborghini might mean urging vs relatively unurged.

[PowerUpPaynter]

So just for example purposes what can be made of these works.... not to be a pain, just trying to learn


Gift Box (3-Year-Old Colt)

Date: January 25, 2016
Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER
Distance: Four Furlongs
Time: 49:00 Breezing
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 25/70




Airoforce (3-Year-Old Colt)

Date: January 25, 2016
Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER
Distance: Four Furlongs
Time: 48:00 Breezing
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 3/70




Rated R Superstar (3-Year-Old Colt)

Date: January 25, 2016
Track: OAKLAWN PARK
Distance: Three Furlongs
Time: 37:60 Breezing
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 8/17

[Baron Star Gregg]

The specific works you posted tell very little in and of themselves. They must be looked at in the context of the training track, the trainer's methods and intentions, the intervals between works, etc. That may be of little help in response to your question but there are no shortcuts.

[Track Phantom]

Workouts a very tricky thing. There isn't one specific thing you can point to since tracks list works differently and trainers train runners differently.

Here is how I use workouts:
-- Spacing: Spacing gets my attention. A work every 7 or 8 days followed by a shorter work, maybe a 3F move, a few days before race typically signals a runner that is well intentioned.

-- Times: Times are meaningless unless you compare the quickness of the works to how a trainer normally works a runner. Many, and I mean many, trainers win off of works so slow you'd think the timer was wrong. However, a trainer like Baffert works them fast, so any omission of fast works from him should be viewed as a negative (especially when cold on the tote board).

-- Clocker reports: Clocker reports help fill in the blanks. It's much more important HOW a horse worked or WHO he/she was in company with. Clocker reports help you know that a 1:03 Bg was actually a great move and finished well or a :59.1 H the horse was all-out.

-- Compare: Sometimes, a trainer will have a first timer win a few days prior to another first timer entered. Go back (Formulator is your best bet to do this) and see what that worktab looked like. Very often, these runners worked together.

Overall, workouts are one of the handicapping factors often misused by the wagering public. As stand-alone data points, they're not very useful. Using clocker reports or comparing to how a trainer normally works live runners makes it more valuable.

Just my opinion....

[Kash$]

Who worked the same day and if he any company.

2 Year olds outworking older horses

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Valento

-- Spacing: Spacing gets my attention. A work every 7 or 8 days followed by a shorter work, maybe a 3F move, a few days before race typically signals a runner that is well intentioned.

Well I would say you are mostly correct but some horses spacing doesn't matter, I owned a gelding who was a morning glory, looked great in the morning, perfect work spacing and 1 for 25 was the result OTOH I had a turfer mare who hated working in the morning, bad spacing when she was in the mood, terrible work horse, 10 wins later......

Thats why I mostly don't use works in my handicapping.

Allan

[SuperPickle]

Valento is totally right. Basically time while not meaningless is really not what you should be concerned about in workouts. Any good work horse can throw a bullet if the train wants him too.

As Valento mentioned frequency really trumps anything. Like an a first you want consistent works 7-10 days apart. My thought has always been its ok to miss one work because maybe its just a clockers omission. Consistent works reflect fitness. Sporadic works reflect speed but no stamina.

Also a bunch of gate works on a firster or maiden generally reflect a poor gate horse. So if you see a firster with a ton of gate works its generally a bad sign.

Probably the best sign workout wise is a older horse working 7-10 days after a race and the stronger the race the better the sign. Compare that with a horse running a big race, entered back six weeks later with no works for four weeks. That's concerning.

Another angle I love is second time starters. Let's say a horse runs 4,5 or 6 first out. Entered back 4-6 weeks later with 3-5 works. That's generally a very positive sign. Horses like that tend to move up.

Finally trainer angles. There's lots of old school guys who love 3-5 furlong works in 12 second furlongs. Shug, Motion, Clement, etc. Then there's guys like Jason Servis who work horses super slow. However Servis still is great off a layoff. A.C. Avila is famous for seven furlong and mile works. People say that's his tell. When you see a guy who's notorious for working horses fast (Baffert for example) with a horse with slow works its a concern. The opposite deal is a guy who's notorious for working horses slow. If he shows up with a horse with quick works its generally a very positive sign.

Remember time only matters in jail. Don't hijacked by random quick works.

[Track Phantom]

Here is an example of what I mean. The horse on top is a first timer running today at Sam Houston in the 5th race. I chose it since it hasn't run yet and we can see how he does.

You'll see that trainer Danny Pish had a firster win just 6 days ago with Parker aboard. He not only won, but he won easily and spread the field out behind him in a very fast time.

That winner appeared to work in company with this one on Jan 8 and maybe on Dec 19th.

You'll notice how slow the works were for Prediction but he ran like a runner who could have fired off 58 and change in the morning.

Knowing this trainer has a history of working them like this allows you to go to the next step in handicapping this horse knowing he is likely well-meant.

[letswastemoney]

Looking at final workout times seems like a waste of time. I look at the spacing between works.

None of us were there to watch, so we don't really know the context of what happened within the work other than the time.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

Well I would say you are mostly correct but some horses spacing doesn't matter, I owned a gelding who was a morning glory, looked great in the morning, perfect work spacing and 1 for 25 was the result OTOH I had a turfer mare who hated working in the morning, bad spacing when she was in the mood, terrible work horse, 10 wins later......

Thats why I mostly don't use works in my handicapping.

Allan

Agreed. Nothing is universal. Speaking in terms of general principles. There are always going to be anomaly's and that is why I only use works in context of something else. (Who the horse outworked, how the trainer normally does, etc).

My opinion is trying to ascertain something meaningful from JUST looking at a worktab is generally fruitless.

I learned my lesson on this back in about 1988. There was a horse, I believe his name was Conway Chitty. He turned out to be a decent runner. In his debut, he came in with workouts like :33.2 bg, :45.3b, :57.2h, etc. He showed great speed but faded to third.

[Baron Star Gregg]

Originally Posted by Valento

Here is an example of what I mean. The horse on top is a first timer running today at Sam Houston in the 5th race. I chose it since it hasn't run yet and we can see how he does.

You'll see that trainer Danny Pish had a firster win just 6 days ago with Parker aboard. He not only won, but he won easily and spread the field out behind him in a very fast time.

That winner appeared to work in company with this one on Jan 8 and maybe on Dec 19th.

You'll notice how slow the works were for Prediction but he ran like a runner who could have fired off 58 and change in the morning.

Knowing this trainer has a history of working them like this allows you to go to the next step in handicapping this horse knowing he is likely well-meant.

Good work Valento. Didn't win but got a good run.
BTW I like your site, well done.