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Old 06-04-2018, 01:54 PM   #31
clicknow
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Originally Posted by Ribot Roboto View Post
People that pick horses based on odds are soon parted with their money if you know what I mean.
And sometimes, as are people who are handicapping using speed figs, pace figs, connection to filed and closing fractions, etc. based on what are primarily middle distances horses and what they did in middle distance races.

Last edited by clicknow; 06-04-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 06-04-2018, 03:10 PM   #32
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In other words, to quote an excellent article on Bloodhorse by Craig I read a few years ago:

"The Belmont Stakes is a unique race, 12 furlongs on dirt, and as such it should not be surprising that traditional handicapping methods do not work very well. The most solid conclusion that can be drawn is that the pace will be average-to-fast; it has been slow only once in the last 11 runnings of the race. Pace analysis generally favors speed horses when the pace is slow and off-pace runners when the pace is fast. But those rules do not appear to apply to the Belmont. Likewise, speed figures earned in races at distances spanning nine to 10 furlongs rarely indicate what a horse can run at 12 furlongs, just as a six furlong speed figure doesn’t mean all that much at a mile"

Perfect!


Only thing I would have liked added to this advice is, while saying traditional handicapping methods do not work very well, he did not offer an opinion of what (if any) other methods do work. It's probably in an article I missed somewhere.

What else I thought was interesting, as an aside, was an article by Andy Beyer who said: "Beyer Speed Figures, which measure how fast a horse has run in each of his races, provide a graphic example of American racehorses’ unsuitability to the 1½-mile distance of the Belmont Stakes."

Basically, he is saying his figures for 1-1/2 are suitable but the American racehorse isn't.
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Old 06-04-2018, 03:23 PM   #33
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I don't dislike Hofburg, I just don't like him very much in this race. In the derby you need some stamina but this race is different. In the Belmont I look for a different kind of pedigree; the kind that makes me think they can run all day. They might not be that fast but I look for the ones that'll still be chugging along at the end and I don't see that in him. To each his own. Some of us will be right and some will be wrong but I can't bet on an underlay I have doubts about.
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Old 06-04-2018, 03:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by clicknow View Post
In other words, to quote an excellent article on Bloodhorse by Craig I read a few years ago:

"The Belmont Stakes is a unique race, 12 furlongs on dirt, and as such it should not be surprising that traditional handicapping methods do not work very well. The most solid conclusion that can be drawn is that the pace will be average-to-fast; it has been slow only once in the last 11 runnings of the race. Pace analysis generally favors speed horses when the pace is slow and off-pace runners when the pace is fast. But those rules do not appear to apply to the Belmont. Likewise, speed figures earned in races at distances spanning nine to 10 furlongs rarely indicate what a horse can run at 12 furlongs, just as a six furlong speed figure doesn’t mean all that much at a mile"

Perfect!


Only thing I would have liked added to this advice is, while saying traditional handicapping methods do not work very well, he did not offer an opinion of what (if any) other methods do work. It's probably in an article I missed somewhere.

What else I thought was interesting, as an aside, was an article by Andy Beyer who said: "Beyer Speed Figures, which measure how fast a horse has run in each of his races, provide a graphic example of American racehorses’ unsuitability to the 1½-mile distance of the Belmont Stakes."

Basically, he is saying his figures for 1-1/2 are suitable but the American racehorse isn't.
This is why I say, if Justify does not win, the proven best horse at "normal" distances that you can pick them out of a hat. There is no real rhyme or reason to handicap this race.
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ribot Roboto View Post
I don't dislike Hofburg, I just don't like him very much in this race. In the derby you need some stamina but this race is different. In the Belmont I look for a different kind of pedigree; the kind that makes me think they can run all day. They might not be that fast but I look for the ones that'll still be chugging along at the end and I don't see that in him. To each his own. Some of us will be right and some will be wrong but I can't bet on an underlay I have doubts about.
I hear ya. It’s kind of why I’m high on Bravazo. I just think he can run all day
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:50 PM   #36
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What is Justify going to be doing while those two keep each other busy? Or do they engage behind him?

Your top 3 horses to win ?
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:37 PM   #37
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I hear ya. It’s kind of why I’m high on Bravazo. I just think he can run all day
THAT is the key.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:40 PM   #38
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Your top 3 horses to win ?
Well I’m sure everyone knows I’m high on BC. I haven’t really started putting together a ticket yet but I’ve already stated elsewhere who won’t be on it anywhere.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:57 AM   #39
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Your top 3 horses to win ?
What are yours?
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