To much judging in USA racing by the stewards

[fellowmen]

In most forms of gambling roulette craps blackjack poker the results are indisputable. Making gambling one of the most fair things in life. The winners win the losers lose unlike a court of law with two cases of the same crime one guy gets off and the next guy gets 5 years depending on the mood of the judge. Or buying a new car. Same day same dealership in the morning someone gets a car for 30k in the afternoon a young couple get the same car for 33k. I know it sounds far-fetched but penalize the owners the trainers and the rider. What crosses the line should stand even if in the stretch dual the two riders whip each other in the face. I know that'll never happen but at least they should make some rules to bring some consistency. Why do you rarely see a change Down Under or in Hong Kong or Japan? I think it's because their school thought is they had the whole race to get in position and whatever path is in dispute the first horse to get there had better position to take it. I guess a good analogy in everyday life would be a parking spot if you pull in first you're in the spot. If someone waiting with their turn signal on and you zoom in there then you had better position yeah it's rude but oh well. It's a Reflection of the fabric of our society we are going soft. And it is sad.

[Tom]

You're gonna love the NFL!

[cj]

Almost assuredly Frankie Dettori gets DQed for his ride on Stradivarius on Champion's Day at Ascot if that race is here. Was barely given a look there.

[therussmeister]

You are mistaken if you believe other forms of gambling are indisputable. Just ask Phil Ivey. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd provide a link.)

Whenever humans are involved in making decisions there will always be inconsistencies and controversies, even when humans decide there are no decisions allowed.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by fellowmen

In most forms of gambling roulette craps blackjack poker the results are indisputable. Making gambling one of the most fair things in life. The winners win the losers lose unlike a court of law with two cases of the same crime one guy gets off and the next guy gets 5 years depending on the mood of the judge. Or buying a new car. Same day same dealership in the morning someone gets a car for 30k in the afternoon a young couple get the same car for 33k. I know it sounds far-fetched but penalize the owners the trainers and the rider. What crosses the line should stand even if in the stretch dual the two riders whip each other in the face. I know that'll never happen but at least they should make some rules to bring some consistency. Why do you rarely see a change Down Under or in Hong Kong or Japan? I think it's because their school thought is they had the whole race to get in position and whatever path is in dispute the first horse to get there had better position to take it. I guess a good analogy in everyday life would be a parking spot if you pull in first you're in the spot. If someone waiting with their turn signal on and you zoom in there then you had better position yeah it's rude but oh well. It's a Reflection of the fabric of our society we are going soft. And it is sad.

IMO if your idea was implemented the result would be many dead horses and a lot of badly injured or dead jockeys. If a rider knew the repercussions of very careless riding wouldn't effect that day's results we would see accidents galore. Especially fringe players who might be trying to complete a pick six for a client or ride for barns that make VERY large wagers. Trainers would fire up jocks to win at all cost and not worry about what happens after the fact. The rules as are they are currently written are far from perfect. But right now IMO they're the best available. The key is having the best possible people to interpret and apply them. Although many will disagree. I believe the stewards in California are excellent. Especially now that Darrell McHargue has been elevated to Chief Steward. I had the pleasure of working with him at several venues. He is a smart, engaged, caring, hard working racing official and California is very lucky to have him.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

IMO if your idea was implemented the result would be many dead horses and a lot of badly injured or dead jockeys. If a rider knew the repercussions of very careless riding wouldn't effect that day's results we would see accidents galore. Especially fringe players who might be trying to complete a pick six for a client or ride for barns that make VERY large wagers. Trainers would fire up jocks to win at all cost and not worry about what happens after the fact. The rules as are they are currently written are far from perfect. But right now IMO they're the best available. The key is having the best possible people to interpret and apply them. Although many will disagree. I believe the stewards in California are excellent. Especially now that Darrell McHargue has been elevated to Chief Steward. I had the pleasure of working with him at several venues. He is a smart, engaged, caring, hard working racing official and California is very lucky to have him.

One of your best posts, Vic...

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

IMO if your idea was implemented the result would be many dead horses and a lot of badly injured or dead jockeys. If a rider knew the repercussions of very careless riding wouldn't effect that day's results we would see accidents galore. Especially fringe players who might be trying to complete a pick six for a client or ride for barns that make VERY large wagers. Trainers would fire up jocks to win at all cost and not worry about what happens after the fact. The rules as are they are currently written are far from perfect. But right now IMO they're the best available. The key is having the best possible people to interpret and apply them. Although many will disagree. I believe the stewards in California are excellent. Especially now that Darrell McHargue has been elevated to Chief Steward. I had the pleasure of working with him at several venues. He is a smart, engaged, caring, hard working racing official and California is very lucky to have him.

Color me a bit skeptical.

How is it we don't see riders at Sha Tin and Happy Valley fouling the living daylights out of each other to win large exotics like the triple trio?



-jp

.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

One of your best posts, Vic...

Thanks Randall means a lot coming from one of my harshest critics.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Color me a bit skeptical.

How is it we don't see riders at Sha Tin and Happy Valley fouling the living daylights out of each other to win large exotics like the triple trio?



-jp

.

I must admit I know nothing about the rules at those venues so I don't feel qualified to comment on that aspect.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Thanks Randall means a lot coming from one of my harshest critics.

Don't worry, someone else will take my vacated place...

[depalma113]

What racing needs is a central location that will house the stewards who have jurisdiction over all tracks.

With technology available there is no reason to have replay judges at every track in the country.

It will also subject jockeys and trainers to suspensions immediately across the country.

Of course that is asking for horse racing to be a real sport, when in reality we all know that will never be the case as long as corporations control the tracks and not a governing body.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by depalma113

What racing needs is a central location that will house the stewards who have jurisdiction over all tracks.

With technology available there is no reason to have replay judges at every track in the country.

It will also subject jockeys and trainers to suspensions immediately across the country.

Of course that is asking for horse racing to be a real sport, when in reality we all know that will never be the case as long as corporations control the tracks and not a governing body.

The roles of the stewards the public see is in fact a small part of the overall job. They oversee a myriad of things before the races start. Licensing, Eligibility of the horses, hearings on a number of subjects. Drugs both human and equine. Settling financial disputes. Careless riding from the day before. They oversee the draw and scratches. Certifying and voiding claims. Writing the stewards minutes. Co-ordinating with the Safety Steward and state vet. Choosing which horses to test after each race. I personally think it would be nearly impossible for one or even a couple body's to deal with everything that goes on each day. When I was a steward I would get to work at 8:00am and rarely if ever have everything finished when it was time to rush upstairs for a 12:30 first post.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Color me a bit skeptical.

How is it we don't see riders at Sha Tin and Happy Valley fouling the living daylights out of each other to win large exotics like the triple trio?



-jp

.

They have extremely stringent riding rules there in HK. Besides, I doubt any riders (jockeys) would want any racing officials there knowing that their connections might be betting on any race that they’re involved in.

They enforce strict racing guidelines for the jockeys to follow. But they’re not just looking potential riding fouls like interference during a race, they’re also looking at potentially lethargic rides as well. If the stewards deem that a jockey has ridden without the right intentions, they’ll get days off.

Because of the vast amounts of betting dollars involved at each racing event, the last thing that the HK Jockey Club wants to do is create an image of ignoring their racing rules or any non-transparency in officiating those rules.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by depalma113

What racing needs is a central location that will house the stewards who have jurisdiction over all tracks.

With technology available there is no reason to have replay judges at every track in the country.

It will also subject jockeys and trainers to suspensions immediately across the country.

Of course that is asking for horse racing to be a real sport, when in reality we all know that will never be the case as long as corporations control the tracks and not a governing body.

That's one of the major reasons why racing in HK is so successful.
Granted the HK Jockey Club is governing only 2 tracks, but it sure would be a nice model to follow.

[Tom]

I like the idea of a national/central stewards location to look at all tracks, in B&W, not knowing WHO the offending connections are and not talking to the riders, just going by the rules.

Track can assign other duties to other people.
As to which horse; to test, let it be EVERY horse is tested EVERY race and the OWNER pays for it.

As today's owners cannot certify that their horses are running clean, who better to pay for it to be done for them?