"What ISIS really wants"

[Clocker]

There is a very good article in the Atlantic laying out the development and actions of ISIS. It shows that ISIS is indeed based on teachings of the Koran, and that what they are doing is what many true believers have done since the time of Mohammed. It also shows the differences between ISIS and many other branches of Islam today. And that our government appears to be clueless about what ISIS is and what their goals are.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Clocker

There is a very good article in the Atlantic laying out the development and actions of ISIS. It shows that ISIS is indeed based on teachings of the Koran, and that what they are doing is what many true believers have done since the time of Mohammed. It also shows the differences between ISIS and many other branches of Islam today. And that our government appears to be clueless about what ISIS is and what their goals are.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

Good post.
Obama today proclaimed that religion has nothing to do with terrorism.
The U.S. has a major problem with a President who is so willfully blind.

[Spiderman]

ISIS members are psychopaths. They distort and use religion for self-serving purpose.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

ISIS members are psychopaths. They distort and use religion for self-serving purpose.

If you read the article you will find that most are anything but psychopaths. The author's research led him to Princeton professor Bernard Haykel as the leading expert in this country on the group’s theology.

According to Haykel, the ranks of the Islamic State are deeply infused with religious vigor. Koranic quotations are ubiquitous. “Even the foot soldiers spout this stuff constantly,” Haykel said. “They mug for their cameras and repeat their basic doctrines in formulaic fashion, and they do it all the time.” He regards the claim that the Islamic State has distorted the texts of Islam as preposterous, sustainable only through willful ignorance. “People want to absolve Islam,” he said. “It’s this ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ mantra. As if there is such a thing as ‘Islam’! It’s what Muslims do, and how they interpret their texts.” Those texts are shared by all Sunni Muslims, not just the Islamic State. “And these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else.”

All Muslims acknowledge that Muhammad’s earliest conquests were not tidy affairs, and that the laws of war passed down in the Koran and in the narrations of the Prophet’s rule were calibrated to fit a turbulent and violent time. In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

The U.S. has a major problem with a President who is so willfully blind.

This is the issue with liberals (or one of their many mental illnesses if you prefer).

Obama understands what's going on. In his mind, he is taking the moral high rode by judging people as individuals instead of grouping them (in this case by religion). Since there have been some terrorists that were motivated by religion (including religions other than Islam), some motivated by all types of politics where religion had nothing to do with it etc... there is no single profile of "extremist" or "terrorist". So in his view, if you associate terrorism with Islam you are doing an injustice to all the peace loving Muslims in the world and possibly insulting them.

This is the idealistic view of the world where we don't profile and are very sensitive to the feelings of others. It sounds all warm and fuzzy. Heck, I wish that was the world I lived in.

The REALITY is the cold hard data and statistics that help you determine the probability of a person being a terrorist and why. That data tells everyone with a functioning brain that there's a worldwide problem inside Islam unlike other religions.

These are not random acts by individuals with mental health issues like we see from time to time in the US and elsewhere.

This is not some hate group with 50-100 mixed up disenfranchised kids that have been having a tough time.

This is x% of a population of over a billion people where x% is large enough to mean that there are at least 10s of millions of them. They are motivated by an interpretation of their religion that requires them to engage in aggressive and barbaric behavior.

While we argue about gay marriage, they argue about the merits of stoning vs. crucifixion vs. beheading. They are at least 1000 years behind the civilized world.

In the twisted mind of the liberal, we are not allowed to look at data like this because it might suggest patterns that don't fit the left wing delusions and narrative about people. God forbid we do look at that data and learn something that could help us protect ourselves, we are not allowed to use it.

The mentally ill liberal would prefer that we live in denial and tolerate a world where there is a greater probability of crime, terrorism, mayhem, political upheaval, barbaric behavior, economic volatility, and death in the name of an ideal that is false when there is data and information readily available that can help us. Most sensible Muslims would want that data to be used in their OWN best interests, but not the twisted liberal.

Right after 9/11 I went to Vegas. I am short, had a darker than average skin color, and a beard. In the airport of was stopped, frisked etc... There is no doubt in my mind I was profiled. Did I care? Hell NO! I was freaking happy as a pig in shit. What's a 5 minute inconvenience to enhance my comfort that some dickhead wasn't going to be on the plane with me?

How can you fix something when you can't even admit there's a problem because it doesn't fit your world view?

[Marshall Bennett]

Very interesting article. I couldn't help but come away from reading it, however, with a sense of the author being somewhat sympathetic towards the Islamic state. Don't ask me in particular reasons why, it's just my sense in how he projects and defines Islam belief.

[Show Me the Wire]

From Isis' magazine and opinion by By Peter Bergen, CNN National Security Analyst http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/opinio...ies/index.html

A key window into understanding ISIS is its English language "in-flight magazine" Dabiq. Last week the seventh issue of Dabiq was released, and a close reading of it helps explains ISIS' world view.

The mistake some make when viewing ISIS is to see it as a rational actor. Instead, as the magazine documents, its ideology is that of an apocalyptic cult that believes that we are living in the end times and that ISIS' actions are hastening the moment when this will happen.


The name of the Dabiq magazine itself helps us understand ISIS' worldview. The Syrian town of Dabiq is where the Prophet Mohammed is supposed to have predicted that the armies of Islam and "Rome" would meet for the final battle that will precede the end of time and the triumph of true Islam.

[horses4courses]

Reading the article gives me an overwhelming
feeling that we planted the seeds ourselves.

This group has been growing since our most recent foray into Iraq.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Reading the article gives me an overwhelming
feeling that we planted the seeds ourselves.

This group has been growing since our most recent foray into Iraq.

What seed, Islam? We had nothing to do with creating the religion of Islam and it end of days teachings. The U.S. did not even exist when the prophet began his teachings.

If you are saying Western involvement inspired these crazies to believe the apocalypse began, maybe. However, the West is not responsible for crazy interpretations by Muslims.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

What seed, Islam? We had nothing to do with creating the religion of Islam. The U.S. did not even exist when the prophet began his teachings.

This is much different than just Islam....this evolved recently.
After 9/11, and after we invaded Iraq. ISIS did not exist before that.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

This is much different than just Islam....this evolved recently.
After 9/11, and after we invaded Iraq. ISIS did not exist before that.

It is all about Islam and its prophecy of the apocalypse per Sunni beliefs.

[Show Me the Wire]

Another tidbit from the Isis magazine:

"[T]he sword will continue to be drawn, raised, and swung until 'Isa (Jesus — peace be upon him) kills the Dajjal (theAntichrist and abolishes the jizyah [poll tax]," the article states. "Thereafter, kufr and its tyranny will be destroyed; Islam and its justice will prevail on the entire Earth. ... But until then, parties of kafirin will continue to be struck down by the unsheathed sword of Islam."

Isis' actions have everything to do with Sunni interpretation of Islamic prophecies.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Another tidbit from the Isis magazine:



Isis' actions have everything to do with Sunni interpretation of Islamic prophecies.

You can't see the wood from the trees.

I am not questioning what they claim their beliefs
and organization are based on. For me, that matters
little, as it's all a facade. These butchers are not human.

What I am questioning is the motivation for such
appalling extremism, and the answer is obvious.

[rastajenk]

I thought Harfie told us just this week that what ISIS wants is jobs. And Hillary says they deserve our empathy, or sympathy, or something like that.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Very interesting article. I couldn't help but come away from reading it, however, with a sense of the author being somewhat sympathetic towards the Islamic state. Don't ask me in particular reasons why, it's just my sense in how he projects and defines Islam belief.

He is certainly sympathetic toward the people he talked to, but they are not the ones killing people. I think he objectively portrays the fact that the people in ISIS genuinely believe that they are doing what the Koran calls for, but that he goes too far to avoid the details of the violence and tries too hard to be non-judgmental about it. There is no emotion in the telling, which we would normally expect, but at the same time it does convey that those in ISIS see what they are doing as an accepted and expected part of their religion.