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04-13-2018, 06:42 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,657
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after the bell
UNIQUE BELLA HAD $137,000 to win on her before the race started, when she blew the break she crossed the wire with $114,000 on her. i know someone must have made a mistake and had to cancel a large bet at the very last second!
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04-13-2018, 06:44 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,657
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and by the way, the exacta paid less than the winner.
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04-13-2018, 08:25 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Benton, La.
Posts: 1,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
UNIQUE BELLA HAD $137,000 to win on her before the race started, when she blew the break she crossed the wire with $114,000 on her. i know someone must have made a mistake and had to cancel a large bet at the very last second!
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and without past posting, those are some smart guys
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04-13-2018, 09:07 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
and by the way, the exacta paid less than the winner.
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It was $11 for a dollar, 22 for two. That is messed up about the win money though.
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04-13-2018, 09:48 PM
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#5
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
UNIQUE BELLA HAD $137,000 to win on her before the race started, when she blew the break she crossed the wire with $114,000 on her. i know someone must have made a mistake and had to cancel a large bet at the very last second!
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Do you have this documented somewhere? I mean, this would be a pretty good start to lead somebody to look into it. Can anyone explain how this could happen?
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04-13-2018, 09:56 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Do you have this documented somewhere? I mean, this would be a pretty good start to lead somebody to look into it. Can anyone explain how this could happen?
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I'm with CJ. Don't hold back if you have this info.
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04-13-2018, 10:32 PM
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#7
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Matties Jr
I'm with CJ. Don't hold back if you have this info.
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I'm actually here and am more than willing to go to the mutuels department and ask about this. But I can't do it with "lamboguy from the internet says so" as my evidence. Any screen shots? Somewhere I can check minute by minute, etc?
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04-14-2018, 10:06 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,506
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0MTP pool total was 192,410 and the odds were 1/9
Final pool total was 211,285 and the odds were 1/5
That's the most detail i have.
Last edited by MJC922; 04-14-2018 at 10:17 AM.
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04-14-2018, 10:23 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I'm actually here and am more than willing to go to the mutuels department and ask about this. But I can't do it with "lamboguy from the internet says so" as my evidence. Any screen shots? Somewhere I can check minute by minute, etc?
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Hey CJ
I will probably be going to Laurel in a couple of weeks for the Derby. I know two guys that are very high up in the mutual dept. as well as one or two management people from my time there. Would it help if I asked them about these late cancellations and/or late piles of money that are coming in and ask them if anyone is looking into it?
If Lambo or anyone can give me something to lean on, it would be a huge help.
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04-14-2018, 11:39 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,657
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[QUOTE=MJC922;2302646]0MTP pool total was 192,410 and the odds were 1/9
Final pool total was 211,285 and the odds were 1/5
That's the most detail i have.[/QUOTE pa has been telling us that 40% of the money has been registering in the pools after the race starts. this, the biggest race of the day only managed 10% from the last flash.
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04-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I'm actually here and am more than willing to go to the mutuels department and ask about this. But I can't do it with "lamboguy from the internet says so" as my evidence. Any screen shots? Somewhere I can check minute by minute, etc?
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That's funny! Like taking medical advice from your friend Larry who is "the manager at Dunkin Donuts".
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04-14-2018, 11:49 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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04-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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#13
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 729
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Oaklawn can't do much about it, except refer it to their hub: UnitedTote, which can find out what, if anything happened and track down the outlet and hopefully an individual. Then they need to do something about it.
It's possible that the bet was canceled when the bettor saw the horse spooking before the race started. It's also possible that the bettor had a window of time (even as little as five seconds) to cancel after the race started. If so, that needs to be fixed.
For about a month in 2015, it was possible to cancel bets made on Australian racing up to five seconds after the race started. North American has its own proprietary pool based out of Woodbine for those races. Sky Racing shows the video feed in near-real-time; betting closes at the same time the race goes off on-screen (at least at Amwager or Xpressbet). For about a month, there was a five second window. If a horse didn't break well (and it happens a lot in Oz), or the horse didn't break favorably, the bet could be canceled for a few seconds afterwards. I did it a few times. After about a month, whatever was allowing that was fixed, but it did exist. If it existed then for Australia, it probably exists somewhere offshore for North American racing. If so, it needs to be corrected.
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04-14-2018, 12:17 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensacola Pete
Oaklawn can't do much about it, except refer it to their hub: UnitedTote, which can find out what, if anything happened and track down the outlet and hopefully an individual. Then they need to do something about it.
It's possible that the bet was canceled when the bettor saw the horse spooking before the race started. It's also possible that the bettor had a window of time (even as little as five seconds) to cancel after the race started. If so, that needs to be fixed.
For about a month in 2015, it was possible to cancel bets made on Australian racing up to five seconds after the race started. North American has its own proprietary pool based out of Woodbine for those races. Sky Racing shows the video feed in near-real-time; betting closes at the same time the race goes off on-screen (at least at Amwager or Xpressbet). For about a month, there was a five second window. If a horse didn't break well (and it happens a lot in Oz), or the horse didn't break favorably, the bet could be canceled for a few seconds afterwards. I did it a few times. After about a month, whatever was allowing that was fixed, but it did exist. If it existed then for Australia, it probably exists somewhere offshore for North American racing. If so, it needs to be corrected.
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i have to admit that if i was on UNIQUE BELLA, i would have canceled before the race started as well. so maybe my example on this one doesn't prove anything. its just when i see that type of money come out of the pools my eyeballs start to dance.
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04-14-2018, 12:57 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,506
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Seems like it indicates a cancel to me. Seems unlikely that a 1/9 shot would take less than 15% of the last batch of money that came in.
And I agree that the amount of pool change being so small points in that same direction as well. It does vary quite a bit however from track to track and from race to race. Sometimes the bulk of the money comes in from 1MTP to 0MTP and sometimes 0MTP to final at the same track.
For example WO has the smallest avg change from 0 to final but one of the largest from 1 to 0MTP. Supposedly they're all working with the same 'antiquated' tote system so I don't see why we see variations like that for example a track like HAW has 1-0-F profile of 51%/34% and a track like FNO has 33%/20% when both have avg 50-55k final pool sizes. Who knows...
How the hubs play into all of this offsite pool aggregation is another variable.
Again exchanges (as an option) would put an abrupt end to this type of nonsense for people such as myself who have grown tired of being fodder for what may well even be lesser handicappers quite frankly.
There's no need to do away with the parimutuel system if exchanges are implemented, it would be another option for people who have serious doubts about the integrity of the current system.
Last edited by MJC922; 04-14-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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