Triple Crown misses

[Valuist]

OK, thinking back to the years since Affirmed won the Triple Crown, who did you feel going into the Belmont was worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Affirmed or Slew or the others?

I know somebody is going to come on here and say ANY horse who wins the first two legs is worthy of a Triple Crown. I disagree. As a fan of the game I rooted against several because I felt they weren't worthy.

So who would I have? Definitely Spectacular Bid. I can only think of two others: Alysheba and Smarty Jones. Silver Charm and Big Brown were close. Not that I thought Big Brown was a super horse but I just felt he was so superior to his competition. Silver Charm wasn't much better than his rivals but it was a strong 3 YO crop back in 1997. I never felt Charismatic, War Emblem, Funny Cide or Real Quiet were worthy. I even cashed big tickets in the Derby on both Real Quiet and War Emblem but had to root against them in NY.

As for I'll Have Another, I felt his Preakness was excellent but I still have a hard time getting past that perfect trip, slow fig Derby win. If he does win, I hope he wins it legitimately; not crawling along on the lead in :50 and 1:14.

The fact that all these attempts have been futile makes the event more special. If Charismatic or War Emblem or Funny Cide had managed to win in New York, how much would this year's race's importance be diminished? The fact its been over 30 years definitely incites enthusiasm from the non-racing public.

[Wiley]

Sunday Silence, would have been a worthy TC winner and to me he is really the only deserving double winner besides Bid. Though for SS, at a mile and a half the edge I think went to Easy Goer, but to me those two towered over many of the other near TC misses.

Agree with you that I am glad others did not win it to cheapen the accomplishment, and those were also usually big paydays if you played against.

Kind of on the fence with IHA but will not be upset if he wins it and think he has a big chance. If he does win it, I hope he continues to race to show his legitimacy instead of packing it in which could happen in this send them off to the shed early era.

Funny thinking back on the Bid's Belmont as I remember watching it on TV with my grandmother who liked racing and being pretty new to racing just assumed he would win and make it three in a row for a no big deal moment, and how surprised I was when Summing came up and beat him. Now here we are, what 34 years later without a TC winner. Bid was definitely on Affirmed and Slew's level.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Wiley

Sunday Silence, would have been a worthy TC winner and to me he is really the only deserving double winner besides Bid. Though for SS, at a mile and a half the edge I think went to Easy Goer, but to me those two towered over many of the other near TC misses.

Agree with you that I am glad others did not win it to cheapen the accomplishment, and those were also usually big paydays if you played against.

Kind of on the fence with IHA but will not be upset if he wins it and think he has a big chance. If he does win it, I hope he continues to race to show his legitimacy instead of packing it in which could happen in this send them off to the shed early era.

Funny thinking back on the Bid's Belmont as I remember watching it on TV with my grandmother who liked racing and being pretty new to racing just assumed he would win and make it three in a row for a no big deal moment, and how surprised I was when Summing came up and beat him. Now here we are, what 34 years later without a TC winner. Bid was definitely on Affirmed and Slew's level.

I don't know how I forgot Sunday Silence, and yes I agree he was definitely worthy.

[Bettowin]

Although he didn't win the Kentucky Derby Point Given might have been the most deserving horse who didn't win the TC. Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers after finishing 5th in the Derby.

9 wins, 3 seconds in 13 starts? Not too shabby.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Bettowin

Although he didn't win the Kentucky Derby Point Given might have been the most deserving horse who didn't win the TC. Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers after finishing 5th in the Derby.

9 wins, 3 seconds in 13 starts? Not too shabby.

I still think Risen Star was more worthy than Point Given. Risen Star destroyed the field in New York, by something like 15 lengths. In the Preakness he rightfully turned the tables on the two runners who beat him in the Derby. In the Derby he went about 8 wide on the final turn to finish 3rd, beaten about a length as Winning Colors got loose on the lead and Forty Niner sat off her in 2nd all race. No doubt in my mind Risen Star was the best horse in the 1988 Derby. Point Given wasn't even the best horse in the Baffert barn in the 2001 Derby. Congaree ran a monsterous race to get nosed out for 2nd after being near a blistering pace.

Afleet Alex gets honorable mention as he was 3rd, possibly on a dead rail for the stretch run of the Derby, then turned the tables after nearly going down at Pimlico, then buried a bad field in New York.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by Valuist

I still think Risen Star was more worthy than Point Given. Risen Star destroyed the field in New York, by something like 15 lengths. In the Preakness he rightfully turned the tables on the two runners who beat him in the Derby. In the Derby he went about 8 wide on the final turn to finish 3rd, beaten about a length as Winning Colors got loose on the lead and Forty Niner sat off her in 2nd all race. No doubt in my mind Risen Star was the best horse in the 1988 Derby. Point Given wasn't even the best horse in the Baffert barn in the 2001 Derby. Congaree ran a monsterous race to get nosed out for 2nd after being near a blistering pace.

Afleet Alex gets honorable mention as he was 3rd, possibly on a dead rail for the stretch run of the Derby, then turned the tables after nearly going down at Pimlico, then buried a bad field in New York.

I agree with you about Risen Star. Everybody seems to look at KD and Preakness winners when discussing near greatness, when there have been several Preakness and Belmont winners who've shined just as well.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by Bettowin

Although he didn't win the Kentucky Derby Point Given might have been the most deserving horse who didn't win the TC. Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers after finishing 5th in the Derby.

9 wins, 3 seconds in 13 starts? Not too shabby.

What about Afleet Alex? he was quite good too but probably not be mentioned in the same sentence as 'Slew. If anyone is feeling nostalgic, here is a link

[Sysonby]

Afleet Alex was one of my favourites but don't think he was an Affirmed or Slew.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by Wiley

Summing

Oops.. Coastal in '79, pretty similar situation in '81 with Pleasant Colony.

Afleet Alex was a nice colt who, for me, gets downgraded for throwing in a flat performance in the Derby and finishig behind the less than stellar duo of Giacamo and Closing Argument.

[depalma113]

Originally Posted by Valuist

I still think Risen Star was more worthy than Point Given. Risen Star destroyed the field in New York, by something like 15 lengths. In the Preakness he rightfully turned the tables on the two runners who beat him in the Derby. In the Derby he went about 8 wide on the final turn to finish 3rd, beaten about a length as Winning Colors got loose on the lead and Forty Niner sat off her in 2nd all race. No doubt in my mind Risen Star was the best horse in the 1988 Derby. Point Given wasn't even the best horse in the Baffert barn in the 2001 Derby. Congaree ran a monsterous race to get nosed out for 2nd after being near a blistering pace.

Point Given - Derby 2:02, Preakness 1:55 2/5, Belmont 2:26 2/5
Risen Star - Derby 2:02 4/5, Preakness 1:56 1/5, Belmont 2:26 2/5

He ran faster in two of the three races and equaled the Belmont time.

Point Given was the best 3 year-old since Spectacular Bid. He just got caught to close to the extremly hot pace in the Derby.

Point Given 6 furlongs in the derby 1:09 2/5 mile: 1:35 4/5
Risen Star 6 furlongs in the derby 1:13 1/5 mile: 1:37 2/5

Both destroyed their Belmont fields. Point Given by more than 12 and Risen Star by more than 14.

Point Given broke from the outside in all three races.

[Vinnie]

Point Given was one Big Bad Motor Scooter...

[Simple Syrup]

Good thread. I think Sunday Silence (since I bet Easy Goer in all three races) and Big Brown make the cut. I otherwise agree with the OP.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by depalma113

Point Given - Derby 2:02, Preakness 1:55 2/5, Belmont 2:26 2/5
Risen Star - Derby 2:02 4/5, Preakness 1:56 1/5, Belmont 2:26 2/5

He ran faster in two of the three races and equaled the Belmont time.

Point Given was the best 3 year-old since Spectacular Bid. He just got caught to close to the extremly hot pace in the Derby.

Point Given 6 furlongs in the derby 1:09 2/5 mile: 1:35 4/5
Risen Star 6 furlongs in the derby 1:13 1/5 mile: 1:37 2/5

Both destroyed their Belmont fields. Point Given by more than 12 and Risen Star by more than 14.

Point Given broke from the outside in all three races.

While bringing up raw final times in races run 15 years apart doesn't make for much of an argument, Point Given was a badass horse.

I know the whole "whoever wins the three races deserves it" argument might seem lame, to me it's still true. Everything else aside, you've got horses now who skip the Preakness to run in the Belmont and face a Triple Crown contender running his third race in five weeks. You've got jockeys out to stop a Triple Crown winner on their watch. You've got the "first time at a mile and a half" issue. You've got horses bred for speed and not stamina. You've got various drugs, legal and otherwise.

If you win all three races, it's not a fluke---no one has three fluke classic race wins in a row. It's an accomplishment, and while many of us will say "Oh, he's not as good as X horse", you've got to give credit where it's due to the one who finally gets it done.

[Vinnie]

Excellent post Castaway:

You are right, Giant hat off to anyone that can get it done EVER!!! Humongous target on your back with everything else that you mentioned and then some.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by castaway01

If you win all three races, it's not a fluke---no one has three fluke classic race wins in a row. It's an accomplishment, and while many of us will say "Oh, he's not as good as X horse", you've got to give credit where it's due to the one who finally gets it done.

I must admit I have to agree with this...regardless, I'll be cheering my drunken ass off for IHA next Saturday afternoon at Belmont...