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07-17-2011, 01:20 PM
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#1
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Apprentice
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
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Beyers Shemyers
Am new here so I just want to say that I have been measuring horseflesh for 40 years now and still well into the black. Yes that does make me an Elite handicapper so I want to share and give advise to those who don't know any better. DON'T LOOK AT BEYERS. They are and have been a distraction since day one. Why would I want anothers opinion rating a race? After all, this is why I play to begin with.
I trust only my own figures...Newbies don't know any better since they probably think these touts are normal. They have made a generation of lazy and dependent handicappers. Personally I don't mind, I love all these juicy overlays I seem to get. Look at HDG in the Delaware for example? I can give you 10,000 other examples where Beyers were totaly wrong but who has the time. Learn to develop your own way of rating races and draw a black magic marker through Beyers. 
Last edited by Hardcore; 07-17-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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07-17-2011, 01:29 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,481
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Same here, like to play tracks where morning lines and selectors use Beyer. Independent thought process is best for comparative analysis. Welcome to PA.
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07-17-2011, 01:29 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,492
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Amen 
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07-17-2011, 01:31 PM
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#4
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,639
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Beyers only indicate to me when a horse is losing its form.
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07-17-2011, 01:34 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hardcore
Am new here so I just want to say that I have been measuring horseflesh for 40 years now and still well into the black. Yes that does make me an Elite handicapper so I want to share and give advise to those who don't know any better. DON'T LOOK AT BEYERS. They are and have been a distraction since day one. Why would I want anothers opinion rating a race? After all, this is why I play to begin with.
I trust only my own figures...Newbies don't know any better since they probably think these touts are normal. They have made a generation of lazy and dependent handicappers. Personally I don't mind, I love all these juicy overlays I seem to get. Look at HDG in the Delaware for example? I can give you 10,000 other examples where Beyers were totaly wrong but who has the time. Learn to develop your own way of rating races and draw a black magic marker through Beyers. |
This post is the PA version of a bullseye. Fire away boys.
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07-17-2011, 01:35 PM
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#6
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hardcore
Am new here so I just want to say that I have been measuring horseflesh for 40 years now and still well into the black. 1) Yes that does make me an Elite handicapper so I want to share and give advise to those who don't know any better. DON'T LOOK AT BEYERS. They are and have been a distraction since day one. Why would I want anothers opinion rating a race? After all, this is why I play to begin with.
2) I trust only my own figures...Newbies don't know any better since they probably think these touts are normal. They have made a generation of lazy and dependent handicappers. Personally I don't mind, I love all these juicy overlays I seem to get. Look at HDG in the Delaware for example? I can give you 10,000 other examples where Beyers were totaly wrong but who has the time. Learn to develop your own way of rating races and draw a black magic marker through Beyers. |
1) I just wish Andy Beyer possessed your humility.
2) When you refer to your "own figures," are you referring to speed figures? If not, what are you referring to? If so, why do you find them to superior to the Beyer organization's numbers?
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07-17-2011, 01:39 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,772
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after 40 years at this game i am still trying to learn how to win with speed figures. i think it will take me about another 40 before i figure it out.
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07-17-2011, 01:45 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hardcore
Am new here so I just want to say that I have been measuring horseflesh for 40 years now and still well into the black. Yes that does make me an Elite handicapper so I want to share and give advise to those who don't know any better. DON'T LOOK AT BEYERS. They are and have been a distraction since day one. Why would I want anothers opinion rating a race? After all, this is why I play to begin with.
I trust only my own figures...Newbies don't know any better since they probably think these touts are normal. They have made a generation of lazy and dependent handicappers. Personally I don't mind, I love all these juicy overlays I seem to get. Look at HDG in the Delaware for example? I can give you 10,000 other examples where Beyers were totaly wrong but who has the time. Learn to develop your own way of rating races and draw a black magic marker through Beyers. |
Don't you find that the "Beyers" are at least a marked improvement over the "old" DRF speed figures...or the 'speed figure and variant' combinations? Why would you advise the beginning player to draw a black marker through them?
These figures don't stop players from doing any further research they might be interested in...
Even Andy Beyer himself has declared that his speed figures are not enough to beat the game...
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 07-17-2011 at 01:48 PM.
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07-17-2011, 02:17 PM
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#9
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Handicapper
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 574
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Hawk
This post is the PA version of a bullseye. Fire away boys.
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Nah, what's the point. I just find it interesting that everyone other than Beyer, Brown & Ragozin know what they're doing when it comes to speed figures. 
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07-17-2011, 02:42 PM
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#10
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Must be summer - the nuts are alling off the trees already.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-17-2011, 02:49 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cardiff by the Sea
Posts: 65
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I look for Beyer-inspired errors in the morning line and run an overlay report.
The intangible benefits that come from building your own racing form last a lifetime. Some things can only be learned, not taught.
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07-17-2011, 03:09 PM
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#12
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom
Must be summer - the nuts are alling off the trees already.
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It is and they are.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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07-17-2011, 03:18 PM
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#13
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,661
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Threads like these always make me laugh.
Why would someone who claims a big advantage through their opinion that Beyer speed figures are useless want to dissuade ANYONE from using them?
The more people who use them, the bigger Hardcore's "advantage" becomes. What he should be doing is PRAISING Beyer figures...that is, if money means anything to him...
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07-17-2011, 03:22 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Threads like these always make me laugh.
Why would someone who claims a big advantage through their opinion that Beyer speed figures are useless want to dissuade ANYONE from using them?
The more people who use them, the bigger Hardcore's "advantage" becomes. What he should be doing is PRAISING Beyer figures...that is, if money means anything to him...
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But...how then can he show us how smart he is?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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07-17-2011, 03:38 PM
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#15
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 7,706
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The only thing that matters to me is the consistency demonstrated by Beyers in ranking the winning chances of all the horses in a field as one weighted component of a multi-factor, value-oriented handicapping approach -- not as a stand-alone, be-all/end-all selection tool.
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