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02-21-2018, 12:23 PM
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#316
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Berlin has been above 8 per cent of GDP for the last few years
If Mr Trump imposed a sanction on German steel and automobiles, the entire EU would be dragged into the fold - this could punish nations like Ireland that significantly relies on America for trade.
Germany has the biggest surplus in the world, in absolute terms, after statistics showed that it reached $287billion last year - this outweighs that of China.
Berlin has also been above 8 per cent of GDP for the last few years.
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The same statement is repeated at the start and end of the quote, and makes absolutely no sense. A city does not have a GDP. And the article is talking about trade surplus, not economic growth.
The Wall Street Journal reports that German GDP grew by 2.2% last year, which is in line with the previously cited quarterly increase of 0.8%.
Quote:
Germany’s economy grew at the fastest annual pace in six years in 2017, according to data released Thursday, adding further weight to a pickup in growth across the eurozone. The German statistics office said gross domestic product grew 2.2% last year, after economists polled by The Wall Street Journal expected growth of 2.3%. Still, it was the fastest pace of growth recorded since 2011.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/german-...igh-1515669401
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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02-21-2018, 02:13 PM
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#317
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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It really depends who you listen to and how you feel for or against the euro doesn't it. As for what you make of it is on you, I did a copy and paste and provided the link. I think if you can afford $60k on German wheels maybe you should pay the tax put on it, I'll find that little violin for ya.
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02-21-2018, 06:26 PM
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#318
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
As for what you make of it is on you, I did a copy and paste and provided the link. I think if you can afford $60k on German wheels maybe you should pay the tax put on it, I'll find that little violin for ya.
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What I make of it is that import tariffs and VATs don't stimulate the economy.
I haven't a clue where the remark about German cars came from, or how it is relevant to the issue. FIY, Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes all have manufacturing plants in the US.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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02-21-2018, 06:35 PM
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#319
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
What I make of it is that import tariffs and VATs don't stimulate the economy.
I haven't a clue where the remark about German cars came from, or how it is relevant to the issue. FIY, Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes all have manufacturing plants in the US.
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That's cool Clocker, I support President Trump's view 100%
And has full discretion in policy in trade.
Last edited by fast4522; 02-21-2018 at 06:37 PM.
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02-21-2018, 08:35 PM
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#320
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
That's cool Clocker, I support President Trump's view 100%
And has full discretion in policy in trade.
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The president has no discretion on tariffs and trade except what the Congress decides to give him on a case by case basis.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution:
Quote:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
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The Congress often passes tariffs which give the president the authority to vary the rate of the tariff within a given range according to conditions, as when Trump recently raised the tariff rate on Canadian lumber, using a tariff that Congress had already passed some time ago. The president cannot put a tariff on something the Congress has never approved.
One of the few things that economists across the political spectrum, from far left to far right, agree on is that Trump does not understand tariffs or international trade. You don't have to understand international trade to buy and sell New York real estate.
The primary effect of tariffs here are higher prices for American consumers. The higher prices may also decrease demand, thereby eliminating American jobs. The higher prices may also make American products more competitive, but that can vary widely, and generally will create fewer new jobs than were eliminated.
Some of us think that tariffs result in the Congress and/or the president picking winners and losers in the economy, and would prefer that be left to the market.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-01-2018, 02:12 PM
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#322
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
The president has no discretion on tariffs and trade except what the Congress decides to give him on a case by case basis.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution:
The Congress often passes tariffs which give the president the authority to vary the rate of the tariff within a given range according to conditions, as when Trump recently raised the tariff rate on Canadian lumber, using a tariff that Congress had already passed some time ago. The president cannot put a tariff on something the Congress has never approved.
One of the few things that economists across the political spectrum, from far left to far right, agree on is that Trump does not understand tariffs or international trade. You don't have to understand international trade to buy and sell New York real estate.
The primary effect of tariffs here are higher prices for American consumers. The higher prices may also decrease demand, thereby eliminating American jobs. The higher prices may also make American products more competitive, but that can vary widely, and generally will create fewer new jobs than were eliminated.
Some of us think that tariffs result in the Congress and/or the president picking winners and losers in the economy, and would prefer that be left to the market.
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Guess what Clocker, President Trump just did it.
I Guess that having "no discretion on tariffs" had no effect right?
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03-01-2018, 02:33 PM
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#323
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Guess what Clocker, President Trump just did it.
I Guess that having "no discretion on tariffs" had no effect right?
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I said "The president has no discretion on tariffs and trade except what the Congress decides to give him on a case by case basis."
Trump is enacting tariffs that had been approved by Congress, giving the president discretion in matters of national security. The claim that this matter involved national security is utter nonsense, and an abuse of power by the president. The losers here will be American consumers.
Why are you so gleeful about Americans getting screwed by the president to benefit a few American companies that can't compete in a free market? Not to mention other American companies that will be hurt when other countries impose retaliatory tariffs on our exports.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-01-2018, 02:55 PM
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#324
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I said "The president has no discretion on tariffs and trade except what the Congress decides to give him on a case by case basis."
Trump is enacting tariffs that had been approved by Congress, giving the president discretion in matters of national security. The claim that this matter involved national security is utter nonsense, and an abuse of power by the president. The losers here will be American consumers.
Why are you so gleeful about Americans getting screwed by the president to benefit a few American companies that can't compete in a free market? Not to mention other American companies that will be hurt when other countries impose retaliatory tariffs on our exports.
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For starters Clocker I am not gleeful, and if you got smoked in todays market it is on you. I saw this as a step that was in the que, and I expected and was ready.
As for the utter nonsense you say, many inside our country do not agree with you. Just as Obama picked winners and losers, this time you can only complain because that is all you can do for the next 7 years.
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03-01-2018, 05:36 PM
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#325
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I said "The president has no discretion on tariffs and trade except what the Congress decides to give him on a case by case basis."
Trump is enacting tariffs that had been approved by Congress, giving the president discretion in matters of national security. The claim that this matter involved national security is utter nonsense, and an abuse of power by the president. The losers here will be American consumers.
Why are you so gleeful about Americans getting screwed by the president to benefit a few American companies that can't compete in a free market? Not to mention other American companies that will be hurt when other countries impose retaliatory tariffs on our exports.
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So we should rely on foreigners for our steel supply -- even in the event of war?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-01-2018, 06:06 PM
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#326
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
So we should rely on foreigners for our steel supply -- even in the event of war?
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Who are we going to war against? We get 2% of our imported steel from China. We get 16% from Canada, and big shares from Brazil and South Korea. China does export a lot of steel to a lot of countries, and keeps the world market price down.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1GD4ZW
Not even Trump tried to use that line about war. Does that also explain the tariff increases on Canadian lumber and South Korean washing machines and imported solar panels?
Trump thinks that he knows better than the market how international trade should be conducted. After the latest tariffs were announced, he tweeted that "We want free, fair, and smart trade!"
"Free trade" and "fair trade" are opposites. The first is determined by the market, the second is someone's opinion. In this case, it is Trump's opinion, apparently based on his experiences in NYC real estate and as the "talent" on some third rate TV shows.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-01-2018, 07:49 PM
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#327
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Who are we going to war against? We get 2% of our imported steel from China. We get 16% from Canada, and big shares from Brazil and South Korea. China does export a lot of steel to a lot of countries, and keeps the world market price down.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1GD4ZW
Not even Trump tried to use that line about war. Does that also explain the tariff increases on Canadian lumber and South Korean washing machines and imported solar panels?
Trump thinks that he knows better than the market how international trade should be conducted. After the latest tariffs were announced, he tweeted that "We want free, fair, and smart trade!"
"Free trade" and "fair trade" are opposites. The first is determined by the market, the second is someone's opinion. In this case, it is Trump's opinion, apparently based on his experiences in NYC real estate and as the "talent" on some third rate TV shows.
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Automation is not going away period, so doors manufactured inside these United States can and will have the same low price points as if they were manufactured in Canada. Only with American workers inside those automated plants. The same can be said for washing machines. The raw materials used to make those doors can be negotiated if we buy wood products outside these United States, but I guarantee it won't be a penny more than China would be willing to pay for those raw materials. So you see when there is a world recession it is better to be paying American workers instead of someone else who is not American, and those world material prices will even be less during recession. Automation in new plants will be occurring at a faster rate here because of our tax reform.
Caution: if your investment portfolio is heavy in markets outside these United States it could be considered gambling. But the truth is everything is a gamble.
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03-01-2018, 08:00 PM
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#328
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Caution: if your investment portfolio is heavy in markets outside these United States it could be considered gambling. But the truth is everything is a gamble.
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I don't care about the impact on the stock market. During the 2016 campaign, Trump's own economic advisor stated that Trump's tariff proposals would increase the cost of living for the average American by 10-15%.
Does no one have a problem with that? Can anyone show benefits to this country that would justify that cost to consumers?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-01-2018, 08:03 PM
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#329
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Who are we going to war against? We get 2% of our imported steel from China. We get 16% from Canada, and big shares from Brazil and South Korea. China does export a lot of steel to a lot of countries, and keeps the world market price down.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1GD4ZW
Not even Trump tried to use that line about war. Does that also explain the tariff increases on Canadian lumber and South Korean washing machines and imported solar panels?
Trump thinks that he knows better than the market how international trade should be conducted. After the latest tariffs were announced, he tweeted that "We want free, fair, and smart trade!"
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We don't live in a static world, Clock. Plus Trump did bring up the war scenario.
Personally, in this dangerous world in which we live, I'd prefer to be as self-sufficient as possible.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-01-2018, 08:14 PM
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#330
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I don't care about the impact on the stock market. During the 2016 campaign, Trump's own economic advisor stated that Trump's tariff proposals would increase the cost of living for the average American by 10-15%.
Does no one have a problem with that? Can anyone show benefits to this country that would justify that cost to consumers?
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Americans on the lower end just making ends meet will never face that, and they will not care if your New BMW costs you $10k more. Threat of cost of living will not make people in line with you, it is more about consumption. Watch the next couple of years, your posts about the same fair trade bogus argument will be like shoveling shit against the tide. We can revisit it during the mid term elections and you might say that you were correct, or you might do a Reply Randall.
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