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02-14-2018, 10:44 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronsmac
So true. Most of my co-workers only care about football because of fantasy and 20 years ago my friends and I only cared because of gambling.
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Tell that to 1.2 million people who 17 Thursdays, Sundays, and Mondays every year fill NFL stadiums to 93% capacity at an average of $53 per ticket. Tell that to the more than 1 in 3 homes in the USA that have an NFL licensed product in their home. That's more homes in this country than have a crucifix. Tell that to all the TV viewers, who since SB VI between Dallas and Miami, the first SB to reach top 5 in the Nielsen ratings for the year, that haven't allowed the SB to go that low since. Tell that to the more than 24,000 people that purchased Russell Wilson jerseys in 2016.......In the state of South Carolina.
Maybe your heads are all gambling and FF, but the NFL is burned into the American psyche like no other entertainment in history. The NFL is nothing short of the most successful marketing venture of post WWII western civilization. It has been an awesome undertaking. Incomparable.
And Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Budweiser, Allstate, and numerous other mega-american advertisers will be more than happy to fill every minute of that Cleveland-Buffalo game in the Miami TV market. Because if that's the only game they have to watch, those well informed advertisers know damn well that's what the people of Miami are gonna be watching.
Last edited by ultracapper; 02-14-2018 at 10:50 PM.
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02-15-2018, 08:46 AM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
We've already seen this with slots. Good luck.
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You cannot compare a slot/VLT/Series 7 gaming venue with a SW venue. Those betting sporting events study the game like we handicap a horse race.
Slots and table games have very little preparation once you know how to play that particular game. SW will do very well in NJ once it is legalized. As I have stated in numerous posts it will not be the much needed revenue stream tracks will need to go forward who do not have slot fueled purses, it will be a step in the right direction to slowly get the train back on the track.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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02-15-2018, 12:14 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
How do you subtract somebody's reputation points, because you should lose like half of them just for this incredible blithering nonsense. The NFL was so popular after the Colts-Giants Championship game of 1959 that a second, competing major league was able to take hold. Then after the Colt-Jet Super Bowl, became so popular that the two leagues merged, and all but took over Monday Night TV in the next decade.
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1959? The NFL was such a far distant second to MLB back then, they couldn't even see them. The NFL didn't become the top sport until nearly 20 years after that.
Next point
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02-15-2018, 12:17 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
Tell that to 1.2 million people who 17 Thursdays, Sundays, and Mondays every year fill NFL stadiums to 93% capacity at an average of $53 per ticket. Tell that to the more than 1 in 3 homes in the USA that have an NFL licensed product in their home. That's more homes in this country than have a crucifix. Tell that to all the TV viewers, who since SB VI between Dallas and Miami, the first SB to reach top 5 in the Nielsen ratings for the year, that haven't allowed the SB to go that low since. Tell that to the more than 24,000 people that purchased Russell Wilson jerseys in 2016.......In the state of South Carolina.
Maybe your heads are all gambling and FF, but the NFL is burned into the American psyche like no other entertainment in history. The NFL is nothing short of the most successful marketing venture of post WWII western civilization. It has been an awesome undertaking. Incomparable.
And Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Budweiser, Allstate, and numerous other mega-american advertisers will be more than happy to fill every minute of that Cleveland-Buffalo game in the Miami TV market. Because if that's the only game they have to watch, those well informed advertisers know damn well that's what the people of Miami are gonna be watching.
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Everyone knows the money in football comes from TV ratings, not the seats in the stadium. You are forgetting a very important point: TEAMS ONLY PLAY SIXTEEN REGULAR SEASON GAMES A YEAR!
Maybe you haven't heard, but the NFL TV ratings have been in decline and it didn't start last year. The product is slipping, and people are tuning it out.
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02-15-2018, 12:24 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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1) I'd like to publicly apologize to Valuist for such a blunt and unnecessarily rude post. Sorry.
Couple corrections.
1) Average weekly attendance at NFL games (17 weeks of regular season) is 1.02 Million. I stated 1.2 million.
2) Average ticket price is $93 per ticket. I stated $53. (Need to use my glasses when viewing websites on my iPhone).
71% of all Americans consider themselves a fan of professional football.
Source: Statista.com
Edit: I just have to add this. The NFL is way beyond being just the stomping grounds of gamblers and board game players. I know many people like to break stuff into just plain cold dollars and cents, but the NFL generates emotions in some people that matches a religious fervor. The NFL is long beyond the bookies and the office pools. It's a way of life. I see it every day, in technicolor, where I live.
Last edited by ultracapper; 02-15-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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02-15-2018, 12:49 PM
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
1959? The NFL was such a far distant second to MLB back then, they couldn't even see them. The NFL didn't become the top sport until nearly 20 years after that.
Next point
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The NFL, in 1959, was actually behind, well behind, MLB, Boxing, and HORSE RACING. You've just made my point. The NFL certainly, at this date, is anything but well behind those 3 sports, or any other sport.
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02-15-2018, 01:00 PM
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
Everyone knows the money in football comes from TV ratings, not the seats in the stadium. You are forgetting a very important point: TEAMS ONLY PLAY SIXTEEN REGULAR SEASON GAMES A YEAR!
Maybe you haven't heard, but the NFL TV ratings have been in decline and it didn't start last year. The product is slipping, and people are tuning it out.
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And you can bet your life the powers that be in the NFL have made this the number 1 priority moving forward. It would be nice to see horse racing just address this kind of an issue with some thought and effort.
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02-15-2018, 04:48 PM
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
Tell that to 1.2 million people who 17 Thursdays, Sundays, and Mondays every year fill NFL stadiums to 93% capacity at an average of $53 per ticket. Tell that to the more than 1 in 3 homes in the USA that have an NFL licensed product in their home. That's more homes in this country than have a crucifix. Tell that to all the TV viewers, who since SB VI between Dallas and Miami, the first SB to reach top 5 in the Nielsen ratings for the year, that haven't allowed the SB to go that low since. Tell that to the more than 24,000 people that purchased Russell Wilson jerseys in 2016.......In the state of South Carolina.
Maybe your heads are all gambling and FF, but the NFL is burned into the American psyche like no other entertainment in history. The NFL is nothing short of the most successful marketing venture of post WWII western civilization. It has been an awesome undertaking. Incomparable.
And Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Budweiser, Allstate, and numerous other mega-american advertisers will be more than happy to fill every minute of that Cleveland-Buffalo game in the Miami TV market. Because if that's the only game they have to watch, those well informed advertisers know damn well that's what the people of Miami are gonna be watching.
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I'm only speaking for the 20 or25 people I know who play fantasy. None have season tickets or go to the games but can tell me how many fantasy points some obscure player on the titans had .
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02-15-2018, 05:03 PM
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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One thing about fantasy football....no such thing as an obscure player anymore. I belong to a fantasy football info service run by a guy named Joe Bryant. This service has their eyes on every move some WR makes on the Cleveland practice squad in mid-June. I mean nobody is off the radar anymore.
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02-15-2018, 05:24 PM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
One thing about fantasy football....no such thing as an obscure player anymore. I belong to a fantasy football info service run by a guy named Joe Bryant. This service has their eyes on every move some WR makes on the Cleveland practice squad in mid-June. I mean nobody is off the radar anymore.
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Which is exactly why people watch NFL games that have no meaning other than who is on your fantasy team playing, or if you've got money on the game. Fantasy sports and gambling are a huge boost to the hardcore fanbase and to the now-flagging TV ratings. Take the gambling away and the NFL is nowhere near what it is now.
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02-15-2018, 07:23 PM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Nobody's arguing that gambling, or any other vested involvement, doesn't have an impact. But the NFL will not, in my or your lifetime, only play a "niche" role in American entertainment.
If all it takes is gambling of some sort, what's horse racing's problem then? The take is way too simplistic, and even those that propose dropping the take dramatically must either be honest and/or get their heads out of the sand and admit that the problems in horse racing go much, much deeper than the take. You can legally gamble on women's pro basketball. Why isn't it as big as the NFL? Where's the fantasy women's basketball leagues? There's nothing holding back anybody anywhere to make women's basketball fantasy leagues every bit as prevalent as fantasy football. Except, FOOTBALL HAS A FAN BASE. If being able to place a bet is the only criteria for a successful sport league, they'd ALL be in our faces every where, every day.
The NFL isn't there because gamblers need something to bet on, gamblers bet on the NFL because they LIKE FOOTBALL.
Last edited by ultracapper; 02-15-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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02-15-2018, 07:35 PM
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#87
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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People like betting sports. They like that they know the price ahead of time, and that they can drop 55 bucks on a team and get three hours of entertainment and have basically a coin flip to win. Racing can't really compare to that in its current state.
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02-15-2018, 07:55 PM
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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I can't do it right now, but when I get home, I'm going to do a little research on NFL merchandising, something that has very little to do with gambling. But before I even do it, I'm leaning towards the thought that the money spent on NFL merchandise will out strip money bet on numerous different sports. I'm thinking that football fans, who disappear in flocks if not for betting, would rather spend their money on "crap" rather than put a bet on something even as popular as a golf tournament or a NASCAR race, or even something as close to a coin flip as an NHL game. That's my preliminary prediction. I'll see if I'm right.
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02-16-2018, 11:54 AM
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#89
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$2 Showbettor
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Villages
Posts: 2,573
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I originally I thought the title of this thread was "Effects of betting on horse racing to be examined."
That would be some study. I'm sure the tracks would fund that.
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02-16-2018, 03:30 PM
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
People like betting sports. They like that they know the price ahead of time, and that they can drop 55 bucks on a team and get three hours of entertainment and have basically a coin flip to win. Racing can't really compare to that in its current state.
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So adding SW to the menu at a racetrack or casino wont draw anymore to the venue? That is the main reason Christie fought hard for this along with the horseman's association.
But when gamblers go to casinos to bet on sports, “that’s not all they’ll do,” said Lloyd D. Levenson, a prominent casino-law attorney.
“They have to eat. They’ll drink. They’ll buy some retail. They’ll see a show. They’ll stay in a hotel room.”
The big boon from legal sports betting is “the ancillary benefit, not just the benefit that comes from sports wagering,” he said.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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