Magnum Moon...done

[GMB@BP]

Hurt front leg...man these Pletcher horses can be brittle.

How many of his 4 graded winners this spring will actually end up having more of a career?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Hurt front leg...man these Pletcher horses can be brittle.

How many of his 4 graded winners this spring will actually end up having more of a career?

That sucks.


I'll be surprised if Audible ever races again.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

That sucks.


I'll be surprised if Audible ever races again.

Audible
Magnum Moon
Vino Rosso
Noble Indy

Audible is most talented, but he has been back from the farm for a while and not sure I have heard about any works.

Vino Rosso is a plodder to me, I guess he can spring a upset but don't see the talent there to be much of anything.

Noble Indy is not any good.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Audible
Magnum Moon
Vino Rosso
Noble Indy

Audible is most talented, but he has been back from the farm for a while and not sure I have heard about any works.

Vino Rosso is a plodder to me, I guess he can spring a upset but don't see the talent there to be much of anything.

Noble Indy is not any good.

Haven't heard a peep about Audible; and I look. Not good.


Vino and Noble were simply exposed as average. Vino raced in the Wood for a reason. Noble snaked into the Derby and they ran the course. I think he might actually be pretty decent in the future though (if he can remain healthy).

[Robert Fischer]

Unbeknownst to us, these guys deal with issues.
Magnum Moon was one I worried about. Here was a horse who was supposed to start as a 2yo at Saratoga, but missed 5 months training because of an ankle injury. A January 13th debut. Since the point-system change, only PATCH got a later start of all TAPs Derby Entrants. He won the Rebel Stakes and drifted out in the stretch. Then he won the Arkansas Derby and lugged out to the grandstand. Now what are you supposed to do?? Shut the horse down?? He just won a ticket to the Derby. Some 'experts' are actually picking him to win... You just heard Vic tell us that he was a "Bad Moon On The RISEEE!!!"... You can't shut him down now for something that only surfaces under stress. Can you??

Very tough to give a retirement or a year+ layoff to a horse holding a ticket to the Kentucky Derby and whom is considered a contender.

That's a horse I tossed, and I pointed it out in the little video I did, but the main thing is you never want to see a horse get hurt. Finished only ahead of the eased/walked-off Mendelssohn, but apparently without major incident in the Kentucky Derby. Now this.

One of those harsh realities when the business of the sport and the ownership is at odds with the health of the animal. Never like to see it.

Hopefully he survives this and has a good retirement.

[GMB@BP]

Yea, horse was lugging out in those races for a reason...I guess credit is due to pletcher for getting the most out of what seemed like a horse destined to have a short career.

[clicknow]

I pretty much only use Pletcher horses for TC prep races, and only in exotics, as they are chalky in the prep races.

There are so many horses who IMHO could make a really good living for their owners if they would just not go to the TC. Dublin was one who came to mind. Nice looking big strappin' horse, I used to admire him in the paddocks every time he raced. I liked that horse for G2 and G3 stakes races, instead they burned him out in the TC stuff and he sure wasn't suited for those distances.

He could have won some nice mile-ish stakes races all that summer and the year after.

Derby fever, etc. not always a good trajectory for many of these who aren't really 1-1/4 horses to begin with.

Magnum Moon had a lot of potential, but you are right about that early ankle injury. It's hard to develop a young horse when they need to go to the farm to recuperate right when you are trying to develop them.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Audible
Magnum Moon
Vino Rosso
Noble Indy

Audible is most talented, but he has been back from the farm for a while and not sure I have heard about any works.

Vino Rosso is a plodder to me, I guess he can spring a upset but don't see the talent there to be much of anything.

Noble Indy is not any good.

I think you are judging horses on classic distance TC races, which really isn't what the majority of U.S. race horses "excel" at because we don't card enough races at those distances, nor do we really breed for them.

So, I disagree with you that vino rosso and noble indy are "not any good".

At classic distances, no. They are most likely elite 8.5-9Fers who can push a little further. Most are not 10F-12F horses. And yes, there is a difference.

Whitmore is a perfect example. MOST of the derby field we find out, every year, are better sprinters and milers. We keep seeing this but every year we keep thinking we are betting on 10F horses. They just are not.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by clicknow

I think you are judging horses on classic distance TC races, which really isn't what the majority of U.S. race horses "excel" at because we don't card enough races at those distances, nor do we really breed for them.

So, I disagree with you that vino rosso and noble indy are "not any good".

At classic distances, no. They are most likely elite 8.5-9Fers who can push a little further. Most are not 10F-12F horses. And yes, there is a difference.

Whitmore is a perfect example. MOST of the derby field we find out, every year, are better sprinters and milers. We keep seeing this but every year we keep thinking we are betting on 10F horses. They just are not.

Can't disagree more. We've had 6 straight favorites win the Kentucky Derby. I don't think the general public is confused about the distance and who can win.

[Robert Fischer]

Vino wasn't terrible in the Belmont.

Thought there were 3 really similar performances from 3 solid-but-not-great 3yos...

Vino Rosso - Had the worst setup of the three, should have been ridden more conservatively. Also finished with the worst energy of the trio and had the worst literal placing (4th).

Gronkowski - Had a very good setup, and a good rail trip on the turn. Finished with good energy. Footwork a little sketchy. Best literal placing of the 3 (2nd).

Hofburg - Better setup than Vino but worse than Gronk. Also significantly wider than Gronkowski. Good energy in the stretch. Of the 3, still has 'potential' to be moving forward (although any of the 3 could improve mid/late year, and Gronkowski is still virtually an unknown). Exciting horse to follow and seems to be on a path to Saratoga.


TLDR: I wouldn't totally disparage/dismiss Vino yet.


Audible has had some hoof issues. Not sure if he went to the farm for some time or simply a layoff, but expect him to receive top care and come back strong and carrying good weight. I'm not a huge Audible fan, but he was a legit 3rd-best in a very good Kentucky Derby.

[GMB@BP]

Just to be clear these are very good horses, saying they are not is in the context of grade 1 or 2 dirt routers.

I think Vinno Rosso is slow, and his most impressive race probably was the Belmont where he at least made a move to engage the leader.

The problem is he has never run a fast race, and run more bad races than good. So for a horse who will continue to take money I just feel like he is a bet against.

Audible, I said was solid, he obviously though has physical issues, and it looks silly looking back at those that questioned why he was not running in the Belmont.

Noble Indy, he will need paceless type front end efforts to win races, and likely not Grade 1 races that I would judge quality on.

Magnum Moon, has been retired, so I think he ended up as a very average winner of what is usually a top class race, the Arkansas Derby.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Can't disagree more. We've had 6 straight favorites win the Kentucky Derby. I don't think the general public is confused about the distance and who can win.

I said "most" are not 10F+ horses.

You're giving me 1 horse who wins.

...... and that somehow negates my statement?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Just to be clear these are very good horses, saying they are not is in the context of grade 1 or 2 dirt routers.

I think Vinno Rosso is slow, and his most impressive race probably was the Belmont where he at least made a move to engage the leader.

The problem is he has never run a fast race, and run more bad races than good. So for a horse who will continue to take money I just feel like he is a bet against.

Audible, I said was solid, he obviously though has physical issues, and it looks silly looking back at those that questioned why he was not running in the Belmont.

Noble Indy, he will need paceless type front end efforts to win races, and likely not Grade 1 races that I would judge quality on.

Magnum Moon, has been retired, so I think he ended up as a very average winner of what is usually a top class race, the Arkansas Derby.

And today in the Ohio Derby, Lone Sailor hung as usual, and Flameaway was nowhere to be found ITM. These are barely 1-1/8 horses, 1-1/4 a bridge too far. They will start winning again at 1-1/16th. These are not Classic "Stayers".

I remember having a huge argument with my friend who thought Gayego was gonna win the Ky Derby. Another (good) miler. Every year there are about 14-15 of them running in the KY Derby.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by clicknow

And today in the Ohio Derby, Lone Sailor hung as usual, and Flameaway was nowhere to be found ITM. These are barely 1-1/8 horses, 1-1/4 a bridge too far. They will start winning again at 1-1/16th. These are not Classic "Stayers".

I remember having a huge argument with my friend who thought Gayego was gonna win the Ky Derby. Another (good) miler. Every year there are about 14-15 of them running in the KY Derby.

Core Beliefs had the best figures going into that race, the fact he had a horrible trip and still beat the perfect trip Lone Sailor just tells me that neither him or Flameaway is much of a horse, in fact Flameway is pretty dressed up, attending someone soft paces with perfect trips. I put $10 bucks on a 50/1 shot in that race, the field just inspired no confidence.

The best races are at 9F so that is what I judge horses on on todays game. Very few 10F horses like an Arrogate out there.

[classhandicapper]

This crop is looking worse and worse by the day.