Justify

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by TVGfan

Saddened to confirm that Mourinho was critically injured while training earlier this morning @santaanitapark and was euthanized. Sympathies to the @PhoenixThoroug1 Team & Baffert barn..

that sucks. Sorry to hear that.

[classhandicapper]

Funniest line I've seen so far about trying to beat Justify after watching yesterdays race, "We are going to need a bigger boat".

Sometimes I like to take a shot against horses that put up big figures in softer fields when they finally get tested, but this one looks like he's a good candidate to fire a new top when he's finally asked to run.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by TVGfan

Saddened to confirm that Mourinho was critically injured while training earlier this morning @santaanitapark and was euthanized. Sympathies to the @PhoenixThoroug1 Team & Baffert barn..

horrible news, I was looking forward to his next race.

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by TVGfan

Saddened to confirm that Mourinho was critically injured while training earlier this morning @santaanitapark and was euthanized. Sympathies to the @PhoenixThoroug1 Team & Baffert barn..

What terrible, terrible news. RIP Mourinho.

[dasch]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Funniest line I've seen so far about trying to beat Justify after watching yesterdays race, "We are going to need a bigger boat".

Sometimes I like to take a shot against horses that put up big figures in softer fields when they finally get tested, but this one looks like he's a good candidate to fire a new top when he's finally asked to run.

Going into the race yesterday on the "slower" number I gave Justify in his 1st race , I had him 6 lengths better than the 2nd placer and 9 better than the 4th placer and thats basically how they finished.

I was one of the ones looking forward to bet against him but yesterday was NOT the day and I am still looking forward to against a decent field.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by dasch

Going into the race yesterday on the "slower" number I gave Justify in his 1st race , I had him 6 lengths better than the 2nd placer and 9 better than the 4th placer and thats basically how they finished.

I was one of the ones looking forward to bet against him but yesterday was NOT the day and I am still looking forward to against a decent field.

it helps if you say that before the race!!!!

[dasch]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

it helps if you say that before the race!!!!

Very true but the 2nd & 3rd placers were adding blinkers and the track was sloppy so while the 6 lengths was too much for ME to bet against I certainly wouldn't talk andybody out of betting against in those circumstances when the 2nd choice was 14-1!

[ultracapper]

MSmith will stay here.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

MSmith will stay here.

great, it could be Talkin Man versus Thunder Gulch all over again

picking the talented lightly raced horses versus the proven winner. Look forward to that again, lol.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

great, it could be Talkin Man versus Thunder Gulch all over again

picking the talented lightly raced horses versus the proven winner. Look forward to that again, lol.

Talkin Man was a champion 2yo in Canada and participated in the BC Juvenile after starting his career in July. Thunder Gulch didn't start his 2yo campaign til September. Talkin Man had more career wins (won 5 of his last 6) leading up to the Derby, too.

In addition, Smith got off both Thunder Gulch and Talkin Man the race before the Derby (the Blue Grass and Wood Memorial, respectively). He opted to keep the mount on 4yo BC Classic winner Concern, which he picked up from Jerry Bailey, for the Oaklawn Handicap. In that race Concern futilely chased the budding superhorse Cigar, who was of course ridden by Jerry Bailey.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Talkin Man was a champion 2yo in Canada and participated in the BC Juvenile after starting his career in July. Thunder Gulch didn't start his 2yo campaign til September. Talkin Man had more career wins (won 5 of his last 6) leading up to the Derby, too.

In addition, Smith got off both Thunder Gulch and Talkin Man the race before the Derby (the Blue Grass and Wood Memorial, respectively). He opted to keep the mount on 4yo BC Classic winner Concern, which he picked up from Jerry Bailey, for the Oaklawn Handicap. In that race Concern futilely chased the budding superhorse Cigar, who was of course ridden by Jerry Bailey.

Interesting, I only remember Thunder Gulch running in many preps that winter spring versus Talkin Man but it was a long long time ago.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Talkin Man was a champion 2yo in Canada and participated in the BC Juvenile after starting his career in July. Thunder Gulch didn't start his 2yo campaign til September. Talkin Man had more career wins (won 5 of his last 6) leading up to the Derby, too.

In addition, Smith got off both Thunder Gulch and Talkin Man the race before the Derby (the Blue Grass and Wood Memorial, respectively). He opted to keep the mount on 4yo BC Classic winner Concern, which he picked up from Jerry Bailey, for the Oaklawn Handicap. In that race Concern futilely chased the budding superhorse Cigar, who was of course ridden by Jerry Bailey.

Thunder Gulch did win the Remsen which probably trumped anything Talkin Man did at 2. I can't remember if Lukas trained him at 2 but I feel like he didn't.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

Thunder Gulch did win the Remsen which probably trumped anything Talkin Man did at 2. I can't remember if Lukas trained him at 2 but I feel like he didn't.

Thunder Gulch did a lot of late season 2yo work after switching from John Kimmel to Wayne Lukas after Coolmore partner Michael Tabor bought him. He won the Remsen like you said and then ran second behind the streaking Afternoon Deelites (the West Coast answer to Talkin Man really).

Talkin Man did nearly all his 2yo work in Canada, winning 3 stakes by daylight. In that respect, he was a bit dressed up. In fact, he was exposed badly in the BC Juvenile, showing speed and getting buried in the stretch, not only by several horses that ended up in the Derby (Timber Country, Eltish, Tejano Run) but also at the home of the Derby...i.e., Churchill Downs...and also under Mike Smith.

Why anyone would think his blowout wins at Aqueduct (Gotham and Wood)--at the time a poor source of classic prospects--somehow invalidated the BC effort, never mind made him deserved of favortism in the Derby, is anyone's guess.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Interesting, I only remember Thunder Gulch running in many preps that winter spring versus Talkin Man but it was a long long time ago.

Thunder Gulch ran in 3 preps vs. Talkin Man's 2, but Thunder Gulch also ran in several late season 2yo races (Nashua, Remsen, Hollywood Futurity) so he had a lot more recency than the latter. In fact, Thunder Gulch would proved to be overraced the remainder of his career, competing in all 3 Classics, then shipping back west for the Swaps only a few weeks later. He won the Travers, then tried to squeeze in 2 more starts before the BC in the Kentucky Cup Classic and then the Jockey Club Gold Cup only 2 weeks later. Broke a leg in the latter chasing Cigar.

Talkin Man also tanked in the Preakness and supposedly bled badly in that race. The hype didn't let up much despite being exposed in the BC Juvenile and the Kentucky Derby as he went off as second choice at 3-1 (Thunder Gulch was 7-2) in the Preakness. He never ran again.

I'm going to guess you confused Talkin Man with Alydeed, who was also a Canadian colt owned by Kinghaven Farm and trained by Roger Attfield. A couple years before Talkin Man, Alydeed won the Derby Trial by open lengths in just his 4th career start and then nearly stole the Preakness, just getting rundown in the stretch late by the ill-fated Prairie Bayou (who was ridden by Mike Smith).

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Thunder Gulch ran in 3 preps vs. Talkin Man's 2, but Thunder Gulch also ran in several late season 2yo races (Nashua, Remsen, Hollywood Futurity) so he had a lot more recency than the latter. In fact, Thunder Gulch would proved to be overraced the remainder of his career, competing in all 3 Classics, then shipping back west for the Swaps only a few weeks later. He won the Travers, then tried to squeeze in 2 more starts before the BC in the Kentucky Cup Classic and then the Jockey Club Gold Cup only 2 weeks later. Broke a leg in the latter chasing Cigar.

Talkin Man also tanked in the Preakness and supposedly bled badly in that race. The hype didn't let up much despite being exposed in the BC Juvenile and the Kentucky Derby as he went off as second choice at 3-1 (Thunder Gulch was 7-2) in the Preakness. He never ran again.

I'm going to guess you confused Talkin Man with Alydeed, who was also a Canadian colt owned by Kinghaven Farm and trained by Roger Attfield. A couple years before Talkin Man, Alydeed won the Derby Trial by open lengths in just his 4th career start and then nearly stole the Preakness, just getting rundown in the stretch late by the ill-fated Prairie Bayou (who was ridden by Mike Smith).

Yea maybe, what you say about Thunder Gulch is maybe consistent with what into the decision.