Illinois Racing

[illinoisbred]

Over the past couple of years there has been very little posted here regarding racing in Illinois. Outside of a thread about the malfunction or mis-timing of Arlington's turf races (which still continues on by the way), not much else. I'm just curious about the reasons many find the Illinois product uninteresting from a wagering or discussion perspective. I neither work at, nor affiliated with Arlington or Hawthorne. I have played both tracks loyally for 32 years but am at just about the point where I'm considering moving my play elsewhere. Look forward to reading all responses.

[lamboguy]

if you bet straight wagers, the Canadien tracks give you a decent shot for your money. they all pay to the dime. New York also pays the same way. those places give you the best bang for your buck before a rebate. Woodbine gives big fields and NYRA also.

the breakage is a very big deal. i bet a horse in Churchill 2 weeks ago for $600 to win. the horse won and paid $3.80 for win, before the breakage it should have been $3.96, i lost $48 or 8%, plus i paid the takeout. its basically impossible to overcome that disadvantage in the long run.

[forced89]

Me an my friends go to Fairmount Park every Tuesday afternoon we can. Love it. Never bet Arlington or Hawthorne.

[illinoisbred]

Thanks Lamboguy and Forced 89. Forced..any reason(s) in particular why you don't play Arlington or Hawthorne? With the smaller purses coming very soon to both Chicago tracks, Hawthorne is very likely to resemble Fairmount"North" this fall.I expect more than the usual FP runners up here.

[wisconsin]

I, for one, still mourn the loss of Arlington's dirt. I can't stand the racing there these days. Hawthorne often has short fields so you really have to wait it out to find a decent bet there.

[Steve 'StatMan']

And with the lack of certainty in the future, Arlington isn't going to spend the money to replace the Polytrack. I doubt it would happen until they get slots, and even then, who knows. I haven't been betting any racing, let alone the local IL races, the last couple years - I'm still too burned out - long story. I do enjoy turf races, and personally don't mind the Polytrack. However, the season being Dirt with Layoff horses at HAW and rarely any turf due to weather and seasonal conditions to begin the year. Then Polytrack and Turf races through end of September, with many horses as I remember going off form during the heat of the summer and after the 4th of July Fireworks. Then dirt and turf racing again at Hawthorne in Oct to Dec, with the turf course grass going into the fall non-growth, death and dormancy cycle, more like hard dirt in November.

[Robert Goren]

Hawthorne can grab my interest sometimes if I am at the simulcast center. The problem with Arlington is that when it is running there are better alternatives. It is caught in a no man's land between the best racing like at NYRA and the "bullrings". The handicapping methods that work at NYRA are not profitable there and neither are the "bullring" methods. You have to develop a special set of handicapping methods just for it. It just isn't worth the bother.

[illinoisbred]

Thanks Wisconsin, Steve,and Robert Goren. Yeah, I'm working with the assumption that the polytrack likely leads to the most disinterest. Gone are the glory days at AP with their fantastic "dirt" stakes schedule. The Washington Park Handicap,all thats really left for "dirt" stakes horses has pretty much been destroyed since the advent of polytrack.

And Steve, noticed the same pattern a couple months into racing at AP. Seems many do go off form.

Robert Goren..yes, AP is up against it running concurrently against some race meets. I always thought Hawthorne really got the worst of this in the spring. Some track somewhere always seems to have a super,Derby trail card every single saturday.

[thaskalos]

IMO...there is nothing worse, from a handicapping standpoint, than having different racing surfaces on your two local racetracks. That's what killed my interest in Illinois racing. The past performances are not believable when the horses switch from Hawthorne to Arlington, and back again. And by the time the horses from Hawthorne have established their Arlington form, I have lost interest in the entire scene...and have moved on to another track.

[illinoisbred]

Thanks Thaskalos..or Gus..the change in surfaces surely does complicate matters. To me it really seems speed gets throttled,compressed at AP on the poly( not so sure if its the surface or riding tactics) and the "true" current pace and speed abilities often come to the fore 1st,2nd time out at Hawthorne.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

I, for one, still mourn the loss of Arlington's dirt. I can't stand the racing there these days. Hawthorne often has short fields so you really have to wait it out to find a decent bet there.

I feel the exact same way. I grew up 5 miles from Arlington and it took a perfect storm of negativity for the ensuing Polytrack to result. The rash of breakdowns on the main track in 2006 could've been nothing more than a statistical anomaly. But the Chicago Tribune was hell bent on tearing into Arlington for the breakdowns. Toss in the fact a newly appointed president to run Arlington (can't remember his name; he's no longer there; it was Colonel something) had ZERO experience in horse racing and they pressed the panic button.

Once upon a time, they had a number of strong barns there. But as long as the Polytrack is there, Arlington's glory days will never return.

Hawthorne's niche is for fall/early winter racing. They used to have the fullest fields in all of racing. They still get decent field sizes in the fall but they've been hurt by racing in Indiana. But they can't fill their fields in the spring meet. Sportsman's was the ideal spring meet, and I believe the true downfall of Chicago racing started when Sportsmans expanded to a 7 furlong track, then put the auto track in, then completely got out of the horse racing game.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Col. Roy Arnold.

I loved the first 7f track. But the replacement 7f track that was put over the auto track was a boondoggle - and Sportsman's management attacked anyone that dared to question or cast doubt on their auto/horse racing plans and pretty much drove the internal people either to leave or keep their mouths shut - and the failure began. I never did get to plant those free Daisy Seeds from an early promotion on their side of the property after they closed.

Geographics are hard there too. People from the city who can drive still don't usually like driving out to AP. People in the NW suburbs normally abhor driving to Hawthorne (and Sportsman's) neighborhood. People in the city to the north of Hawthorne don't want to travel through the dangerous and dismal west side to get there. If they even would do it during the day, they won't do it going home in the dark at night, and Hawthorne runs in Fall, Winter & Spring when the daylight is scarcer.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Steve 'StatMan'

Col. Roy Arnold.

I loved the first 7f track. But the replacement 7f track that was put over the auto track was a boondoggle - and Sportsman's management attacked anyone that dared to question or cast doubt on their auto/horse racing plans and pretty much drove the internal people either to leave or keep their mouths shut - and the failure began. I never did get to plant those free Daisy Seeds from an early promotion on their side of the property after they closed.

Geographics are hard there too. People from the city who can drive still don't usually like driving out to AP. People in the NW suburbs normally abhor driving to Hawthorne (and Sportsman's) neighborhood. People in the city to the north of Hawthorne don't want to travel through the dangerous and dismal west side to get there. If they even would do it during the day, they won't do it going home in the dark at night, and Hawthorne runs in Fall, Winter & Spring when the daylight is scarcer.

Those are all valid points. Its a pretty lengthy drive from the NW suburbs to Stickney/Cicero. And the drive home, in rush hour, is horrible. People in the city can always take the Metra to Arlington, but I don't blame them for not wanting to drive thru the west side to get to Hawthorne. Some very, very rough areas to the east of Hawthorne. I sympathize with Hawthorne, because I feel they are one track who does look out for the bettor. But there's only so much they can do, and the product in the spring just isn't playable.

It used to be most barns, except for the real top barns who'd go to Florida, would turn their horses out for winter and start up again in February at Sportsmans. There's always been some barns that would go to the FG but we've seen a real exodus of barns going to Hot Springs and staying for the full meet. I think Hawthorne should either run all thru the winter, or just close up shop until late March.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Are the IL tracks still legally taking money from the purse account due to that damn awful legislation called Recaputre, which the horsemen agreed to to get the tracks to approve full card similcasting back in 1994, and guaranteed that the tracks got compensation to what the Live handle was at the 1994 level?

[illinoisbred]

Thanks Valuist. Agree with you regarding the drive from the NW burbs to Hawthorne. I went down on a couple saturdays a fall or 2 ago and the jam up between 1st Ave and Mannheim Rd. was horrible both times.Also, it really did seem like there was a true start to the racing year when Sportsmans was in business. Some of the better stables would wait out the meet,maybe get a start or 2 in near the end. Racing almost felt like baseball back then..an opening day worth looking forward to.