Mark Casse - How the mighty have fallen

[SoCalCircuit]

What a fall apart this guy has had in the past 6 months. He arguably had the best horse in multiple divisions with Tepin, Classic Empire, La Coronel, and Valadorna. What are all these horses doing now. Not to mention it seems a lot of the Conquest horses have improved since they've moved on. So did this guy become a horse ruiner or what?

[rsetup]

Surely you jest.

[menifee]

This is a joke right?

[Mr. Pick 5]

Originally Posted by SoCalCircuit

What a fall apart this guy has had in the past 6 months. He arguably had the best horse in multiple divisions with Tepin, Classic Empire, La Coronel, and Valadorna. What are all these horses doing now. Not to mention it seems a lot of the Conquest horses have improved since they've moved on. So did this guy become a horse ruiner or what?

you forgot to add catch a glimpse and pretty city dancer to the list...im sure there are others....hes also 3 for his last 30....some may call that a minor cold streak...but with the horses he gets he surely has been underachieving...give the dirt ones to pletcher and the turf ones to chad and i can assure you they would be winning more races....

overall i believe it is a mismanagement issue and he has SEVERELY mismanaged his upper level horses judging from their recent form....why did he run poor catch a glimpse into the ground last year?...do you ever see chad brown running his top level turf horses like that?....a year ago casse was at the top of the world, now he cant even win a g2 at gulfstream, or even get a horse to agree to workout for that matter

[SoCalCircuit]

Forgot to mention sticking Noble Bird into races he doesn't belong in at all the past two starts.

[Mr. Pick 5]

I will also add that I used to be a pretty big casse fan....but his performance over the past several months had led me to have serious doubts....we're not talking about just a few horses here....i have nothing against the man and i honestly hope he gets things turned around and back to where they were...at the current time i dont think one can deny that there are some serious questions

[menifee]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pick 5

I will also add that I used to be a pretty big casse fan....but his performance over the past several months had led me to have serious doubts....we're not talking about just a few horses here....i have nothing against the man and i honestly hope he gets things turned around and back to where they were...at the current time i dont think one can deny that there are some serious questions

Let me defend Casse.

Tepin - Record speaks for itself. I'm not sure what else he needed to do with her. He went overseas won and then came back with her as she was the best horse in the BC mile - just had a bad trip.

Classic Empire - Horse is obviously a head case. He has been since he wheeled in the Hopeful. Somehow got the horse to run a dynamite BC Juvenile. I don't know how Casse can solve the mental issues. Imo, the horse probably needs to be gelded, but they won't do it for breeding reasons. That's not his call.

La Coronel - horse is talented and ran a pretty good comeback race with an impossible trip. Don't know what else he could have done with her.

Valadorna - Was never as talented as people thought she was. She's running her race - she's just not that fast.

Catch a Glimpse - This was one of Casse's best training jobs. Took a really precocious filly and won a tremendous amount in her 3yo campaign including beating the boys. He stretched her to distances most thought were impossible. She came back to earth when her contemporaries grew up and she no longer had an edge. I thought she was way overmatched in the BC and should not have been entered. Might have been an owner decision.

World Approval - He won a G1 with this horse and frankly the horse just isn't that special. Good training job.

He has had a rough start to 2017 in terms of wins but once Woodbine and Kee open, I expect the wins will start piling in.

[SoCalCircuit]

Originally Posted by menifee

Let me defend Casse.

Tepin - Record speaks for itself. I'm not sure what else he needed to do with her. He went overseas won and then came back with her as she was the best horse in the BC mile - just had a bad trip.

Classic Empire - Horse is obviously a head case. He has been since he wheeled in the Hopeful. Somehow got the horse to run a dynamite BC Juvenile. I don't know how Casse can solve the mental issues. Imo, the horse probably needs to be gelded, but they won't do it for breeding reasons. That's not his call.

La Coronel - horse is talented and ran a pretty good comeback race with an impossible trip. Don't know what else he could have done with her.

Valadorna - Was never as talented as people thought she was. She's running her race - she's just not that fast.

Catch a Glimpse - This was one of Casse's best training jobs. Took a really precocious filly and won a tremendous amount in her 3yo campaign including beating the boys. He stretched her to distances most thought were impossible. She came back to earth when her contemporaries grew up and she no longer had an edge. I thought she was way overmatched in the BC and should not have been entered. Might have been an owner decision.

World Approval - He won a G1 with this horse and frankly the horse just isn't that special. Good training job.

He has had a rough start to 2017 in terms of wins but once Woodbine and Kee open, I expect the wins will start piling in.

Well you're kind of making my point. Casse had an unbelievable 2016 and now it seems like all his premier horses have fallen off significantly. So whether he overperformed in 2016 or is underperforming now due to mismanagement of his barn, something is different. And full disclosure I like Mark and love Norm, so I hope they get back on track.

[agameofskill]

real simple. It's a streaky game.

[Robert Fischer]

Casse seems the same as usual.
I wasn't kissing his ass 6mths-yr ago.
I'm not giving him the cold shoulder today.

Seems about the same. A guy I usually take on a case-by-case basis.

I could be wrong. Maybe he's in a terrible slump, and his operation is crumbling? IDK. Chad or Todd or Bob has a favorite in the stakes tomorrow? Oh yea?? Mark has a favorite in the stakes tomorrow. Mark who? What's his full name? I know the trainer, but he's never been a guy I took for granted, nor a guy I felt the Public took for granted, so I wouldn't know. I take his horses on a case-by-case basis.

[ultracapper]

The Wilsons have sent a number of primarily turf horses to Cerin in SoCal from Casse, and Cerin has handled them quite well. Many were given breaks, and Cerin has been getting them home 1st and 2nd starts. The Conquest horses, which are usually pretty reliable, seem to be a chunk of the group.

[BIG49010]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ighlight=Casse


We sort of posted about Casse before, perhaps he lost some of his star assistants, when he lost the Conquest horses?

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Casse seems the same as usual.
I wasn't kissing his ass 6mths-yr ago.
I'm not giving him the cold shoulder today.

Seems about the same. A guy I usually take on a case-by-case basis.

I could be wrong. Maybe he's in a terrible slump, and his operation is crumbling? IDK. Chad or Todd or Bob has a favorite in the stakes tomorrow? Oh yea?? Mark has a favorite in the stakes tomorrow. Mark who? What's his full name? I know the trainer, but he's never been a guy I took for granted, nor a guy I felt the Public took for granted, so I wouldn't know. I take his horses on a case-by-case basis.

Is this a pun?

And, you meant to write Casse-by-Casse basis.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by BIG49010

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ighlight=Casse


We sort of posted about Casse before, perhaps he lost some of his star assistants, when he lost the Conquest horses?

I'd imagine the Wilsons can impact a barn in many ways. David and Holly Wilson aren't your run of the mill owners. They race their horses nationwide, and at the top echelon of the game. Who knows exactly what kind of discussions they and Casse have had, and whether they've been positive or negative discussions, but there has definitely been discussions of some kind.

[SoCalCircuit]

Originally Posted by BIG49010

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ighlight=Casse


We sort of posted about Casse before, perhaps he lost some of his star assistants, when he lost the Conquest horses?

Well this kind of goes in with my theory of him becoming a "supertrainer" for a year got to his head and he began overaggressively mismanaging his horses. He needed to see his name in every Grade 1, and this is what happens.