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Old 01-19-2017, 01:20 AM   #16
Secondbest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli125
It's hard to stick to that when you have slots vs. non-slots tracks. I went 100% away from purse value a few years ago.
What do you use now,if I may ask?
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green80
that looks like a list of the average allowance race purses at each track.

I think a better indicator would be the lowest race purse at each track. The majority of races are claiming races, most bottom level claiming.
I always use the purse for msw as my class indicator.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Secondbest
How do you find out what the costs are?. Doesn't each trainer charge different rates? Unless you know for sure it could be very hard to figure costs.
Trainers charge different amounts even at the same track, which is another issue. I was looking for "average cost" or some kind of metric like that, but I've been unable to locate that kind of information for most tracks.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalGreg
I use purse value exclusively...just seems to be more "honest" a yardstick than trying to sort out conditions, track ratings, etc. Sometimes surprising results happen when judging by purse values only--and the majority of handicappers are looking at claiming and allowance levels.

As in every facet of everything in life.....money does talk.
I still find some real gems using purse value in l.race to uncover longshots. Seems to work well in claimers with a higher last race alw. purse and less than stellar performance in that race. A few other back class purses above today's purse helps to bolster the play.
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:34 PM   #20
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I don't use purse values in claiming races

A $10k claiming race with a purse of $8k at one track and $20k at another track I rate equally since the horse is worth $10k to seller and buyer.

My separations are California's scale of 20% difference between prices. 10k, 12,500, 16,000. etc.

I use the same scale for allowance, stakes and maiden special races, but use purse values.

These are important distinctions for me since I use the race/class ratings to make my Performance Class Ratings.

I used to use purse values until casinos and state bred races exaggerated the purses.

I compensate when making my ratings by downgrading State bred races 3 notches. A state bred $25k race is equal to a $12,500 open race. I also downgrade 2 notches for NW2 and one notch for NW3.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:41 AM   #21
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Here you can see the average purses per track including minimum and maximum values for ALW races :

https://github.com/deltalover/hoplat...ies/purses.csv

A meaningful way to use this information might be to use shippers who performed similarly (from - to track) and create pairs of purse differences and possibly build a metric to neutralize the difference in purses.

Still, I am not convinced that this exercise worths the effort since a good set of speed figures will probably tell us the story in a better and easier to use way.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by jasperson
I always use the purse for msw as my class indicator.
The reason I use the purse on msw is that it is the top level maiden race at any track. Plus all tracks have a msw race,and there are now other conditions on the race.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaLover
Here you can see the average purses per track including minimum and maximum values for ALW races :

https://github.com/deltalover/hoplat...ies/purses.csv

A meaningful way to use this information might be to use shippers who performed similarly (from - to track) and create pairs of purse differences and possibly build a metric to neutralize the difference in purses.

Still, I am not convinced that this exercise worths the effort since a good set of speed figures will probably tell us the story in a better and easier to use way.
Thanks for information and the comments. I will take a look at it and see if I can add anything meaningful to the numbers I use. Tough to correlate
with the wide ranges but maybe there is something there.
Thanks again,
TD

Last edited by TexasDolly; 01-22-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TexasDolly
Thanks for information and the comments. I will take a look at it and see if I can add anything meaningful to the numbers I use. Tough to correlate
with the wide ranges but maybe there is something there.
Thanks again,
TD
Another way to view the problem is to develop a customized classification for each race which will not depend directly on its conditions but will derive directly from the past performances considering things like earning, winnings or strength of competition.

Still, I have to admit that I remain skeptic about the potential success of this approach, since it is redundant to the creation of class pars and time projections that are commonly used by figure makers and probably will not end up adding meaningful information since all these approaches are build upon a closed ecosystem of data.
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Old 06-14-2020, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGalt1 View Post
I don't use purse values in claiming races

A $10k claiming race with a purse of $8k at one track and $20k at another track I rate equally since the horse is worth $10k to seller and buyer.




My separations are California's scale of 20% difference between prices. 10k, 12,500, 16,000. etc.

I use the same scale for allowance, stakes and maiden special races, but use purse values.


I like this post from 2017. But I have a question:

How would you weight or evaluate or compare between
a claiming race and an allowance race of the same tag as a purse ?

$25,000 claiming price
$25,000 allowance purse
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:39 PM   #26
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How about using the $25K Claimer PURSE and compare purse to purse?
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MPRanger View Post
I like this post from 2017. But I have a question:

How would you weight or evaluate or compare between
a claiming race and an allowance race of the same tag as a purse ?

$25,000 claiming price
$25,000 allowance purse

you are trying to compare different things. Purse value on a 25k claiming race can vary widely at different tracks. An allowance race with a 25k purse could be softer than a 25k claiming race with a $40k purse at another track.


Just compare purse value to purse value in the same kind of race and then that is not always a true indicator.
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by green80 View Post
you are trying to compare different things. Purse value on a 25k claiming race can vary widely at different tracks. An allowance race with a 25k purse could be softer than a 25k claiming race with a $40k purse at another track.


Just compare purse value to purse value in the same kind of race and then that is not always a true indicator.
I don't think you understand my question. My fault Im sure.
Forget the purse on the claimer, just go with the sale price
of 25k


How would you handicap that against a 25k allowance race?

Which is higher on the totem pole?
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:14 PM   #29
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How about using the $25K Claimer PURSE and compare purse to purse?
Is that how you do it?
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:35 PM   #30
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Back in the old days I would double the allowance purse as a crude rule of thumb. That is, alw 25k would be in the vicinity of a 50k open claimer. Keep in mind state bred purses are inflated.

I would highly recommend getting away from labels and purses to measure class. Someday I may release a true class ladder for north american racing to bring some clarity to this and put an abrupt end to the guesswork.
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