Support the looters, look in the mirror

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Maybe you can tell the many trained police officers who acccidentally shoot people they believed were wishing to do them harm.

Its always a tragedy when this happens.... but we have enough of those unarmed dead people stories already.

But, I guess since you think "its not that hard", nobody should worry.

Ya'll brought this on yourselves. Don't blame me...I had nothing to do with it.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Ya'll brought this on yourselves.

Who is ya'll?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Who is ya'll?

Self-explanatory

[PaceAdvantage]

But I will elaborate...

All those who cheered on the stupidly long lockdowns which ended up kicking 40 MILLION Americans out of work...

40 MILLION IDLE AMERICANS...makes for an excellent pool of potential rioters, don't you think?

That's for starters...

[PaceAdvantage]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes explains everything the past 3+ months.

[JustRalph]

What?

Originally Posted by clicknow

Maybe you can tell the many trained police officers who acccidentally shoot people they believed were wishing to do them harm.

Please produce a list of these incidents?

[clicknow]

Contributory for sure.

I'm not willing to move off the main point here though.

This came at a bad time, but it's not like the whole issue of police brutality was going to stay in Pandoras Box forever. And there's never really a "good time" for what happens when the box gets opened, is there?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Maybe you can tell the many trained police officers who acccidentally shoot people they believed were wishing to do them harm.

Its always a tragedy when this happens.... but we have enough of those unarmed dead people stories already.

But, I guess since you think "its not that hard", nobody should worry.


BTW, I am a gun owner. I'm just not as pie-in-the-sky as some people

Your a riot. We are talking about people wanting to defend themselves your point is what, they should probably think twice because you feel they wont be trained?

At the gun shop we buy from there is a mandatory safety class to purchase your first fire arm from them. Many places do that, heck might even be a law for all I know.

How do you even know without guessing what the level of training is of anyone in that line.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Who is ya'll?

He’s a Yankee.

It’s y’all.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Contributory for sure.

I'm not willing to move off the main point here though.

This came at a bad time, but it's not like the whole issue of police brutality was going to stay in Pandoras Box forever. And there's never really a "good time" for what happens when the box gets opened, is there?

I've got a news flash for you...

The "George Floyds" of the world will never end...not as long as their is social media and cameras in everybody's pocket.

You see, there are "George Floyds" everywhere...guys susceptible to dying from a stress-related incident that your normal healthy person would walk away from relatively unscathed and ready to live another day.

Not excusing what these cops did...not one bit...they all should face a jury.

But it's a fact everyone will ignore because it's uncomfortable to think about and of course, doesn't fit the narrative.

Cops use "knee on the neck" ALL THE TIME (or at least they did...that will change of course). ALL THE TIME. These head honchos who tell you it isn't part of the regular training or whatever, are talking bullshit...because I've seen it FOREVER...

People don't die from this...even if it lasts for minutes. But take a guy like Floyd, with all the stuff revealed from his autopsy...and you have a guy very susceptible to something like this...and it's going to happen again...maybe not a knee on the neck...but something else. And it will be recorded...and it will be white on black...and the cycle will repeat itself over and over and over again...and there isn't much anyone can do to stop it...

I said it before and I'll say it again...everything else being equal...if George Floyd was white, he'd still be dead.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've got a news flash for you...

The "George Floyds" of the world will never end...not as long as their is social media and cameras in everybody's pocket.

You see, there are "George Floyds" everywhere...guys susceptible to dying from a stress-related incident that your normal healthy person would walk away from relatively unscathed and ready to live another day.

Not excusing what these cops did...not one bit...they all should face a jury.

But it's a fact everyone will ignore because it's uncomfortable to think about and of course, doesn't fit the narrative.

Cops use "knee on the neck" ALL THE TIME (or at least they did...that will change of course). ALL THE TIME. These head honchos who tell you it isn't part of the regular training or whatever, are talking bullshit...because I've seen it FOREVER...

People don't die from this...even if it lasts for minutes. But take a guy like Floyd, with all the stuff revealed from his autopsy...and you have a guy very susceptible to something like this...and it's going to happen again...maybe not a knee on the neck...but something else. And it will be recorded...and it will be white on black...and the cycle will repeat itself over and over and over again...and there isn't much anyone can do to stop it...

I said it before and I'll say it again...everything else being equal...if George Floyd was white, he'd still be dead.

well said.

In fact this cop had issues with every race. He basically was a bad guy.

Nature versus nurture, nature always wins.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

What?

Originally Posted by JustRalph

What?

There's a list, Ralph.

I'm not going to create an entire research project on this for illustration purposes and the list is very long.

My point is that if its hard for police officers to determine what to do/what is going on amidst altercations, and how to react, how do you expect John Q. Public to do it, with zero training in de-escalation and probably zero training in proper gun handling?




But also, if you're saying that there is no reason for all this, then that's your POV and you're welcome to have it. I believe there is a wall of silence and lack of quick disclosure in many instances.

The problem is there's not a whole lot of record keeping except for "high profile" cases. There's a lot of debate on which incidents to track — from deadly shootings to all interactions with the public---- so then we have to look at what actually gets, or should get, measured.

Sort of like racehorse deaths, I find it somewhat embarassing that we seem to have a lack of comprehensive national data. How else do you build integrity and trust into a system? We should also have a strong database on police who get shot of course.

Its' not about whether charges are filed or not filed, either. It's about how stuff happens during altercations and how hard it is to get a handle on stuff.........that an ordinary citizen, IMHO, could NOT NAVIGATE w/out training. You can start with Breonna Taylor in Louisville; Michael Brown in Ferguson; BART killing of Oscar Grant; Antwon Rose; Leonard Thomas; Said Joseph; Eric Garner in New York City; Deravis Caine Rogers in Ga; bobby daniels in Ga.; Darrius Stewart; Ricky Hayes; Trayvon Martin and now Ahmaud Arbery (wasn't a police action), Steven taylor (mental case), Michael Dean; Antwun Shumpert; Philando Castile, Charles Kinsey, and the truly tragic 12-year-old black child playing with a pellet gun Tamir Rice;

.....sometimes not officers fault, other times it is.......the point is that the common citizen is not able to navigate these difficult waters.....who thinks ditsy Mrs. Jones from next door can?

A good place to start is Lexus Nexus Community Crime Maps, Mapping Police Violence, The Counted (police killings database), the FBI, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Fatal Encounters, Killed By Police, Operation Ghetto Storm, ARD count, etc. etc. .

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I said it before and I'll say it again...everything else being equal...if George Floyd was white, he'd still be dead.

no news flash for me, since I said that in the very beginning of the I Can't Breathe topic..... being one of the first poople to post to it.

but it can't be said enough.

I was surprised that it became racial ..... but I guess not really surprised.

It's a police brutality thing, and also a matter that things get cloudy when you are in the midst of some altercations.

However, I can "also see" why many black people don't trust police, based on some of the things that happen. OTOH I know a lot of white people who feel similarly . I dont have answers. Police have a tough job and maybe they do not really get all the training they need, or maybe some of them don't have to right psychological/emotional makeup to do the job right.


Like anything that has a lot to do with it. My ex submariner boyfriend was not at all worked up over staying home during covid. Either was my saturation diver brother. They are trained to make the best of any environment they find themselves in. It's all about mental abilities and training.

[PaceAdvantage]

I love every minute of staying home. I'm stupid like that.

It's not about "staying home."

These riots wouldn't nearly be as widespread or violent as they are if 40M people weren't recently thrown out of work.

It's about seeing all the damage done from the very start with these unprecedented lockdowns...against a virus that was not all that unprecedented.

And if you're not black, you'll never understand. So I won't even pretend to try and "see" what black people feel when it comes to the police.

Maybe Chauvin is a raving racist...and maybe he kept his knee there longer because Floyd was black. Maybe if Floyd was white, he would still be alive. It's a possibility of course.

Or maybe he kept his knee there out of "spite" because the onlookers were screaming at him and telling him "how to do his job."

There's a million reasons why this might have happened.

And that's why it will continue to happen...

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by clicknow

There's a list, Ralph.
.

Wait a minute. You said :

“Maybe you can tell the many trained police officers who acccidentally shoot people they believed were wishing to do them harm. “

Police officers don’t “accidentally” shoot people very often. In fact it’s rare.

There is no list of accidental shootings. If you are referring to cops who shoot people who are unarmed, those are just about as rare. They happen, but are in no way common.

There are over 25k police contacts made every day in this country.
9 million a year. How many go bad? How many are criminal? Do the math.......a very small %

Very few end up with somebody getting shot. It’s a damn miracle that more shootings don’t occur. But police officers rarely “accidentally” shoot anybody. And if you’re trying to extrapolate and knead the term “accidentally” into cases where police shoot unarmed persons, there are very few of those.

They are a blip on the radar.

Data can be found here. But I find it skeptical. But probably as accurate as the government keeps

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/