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09-20-2018, 11:59 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
I’m starting to think that winning at chess is more a function of being familiar with all the openings, followed by remembering all the tricks and traps that could result from these distinct openings...
..this leads me to think that chess for many is more “mechanical” than “brilliant”, that less “original thinking” is involved for many players...
..that many good players have simply memorized the numerous variations stemming from these openings BETTER than their counterparts, and that THIS is really the difference between the players...and not that one player is more intelligent.
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If you go back and look at some of the interviews with Bobby Fischer, you will see him say the same things you mention here......
Much has been said about Magnus' play as well.......There is little to no creativity when you draw time after time ....
__________________
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governed.
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09-21-2018, 12:41 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
I disagree, the key to winning Chess is pattern recognition and calculation.
Rinse, repeat and pay attention to Susan Polgar.
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Susan is a great person. Not saying I know her, because I don't. She was talking to my wife a few years ago and gave us a few boards with the Texas Tech logo (when she was associated with Tech). We still use those at one of our locations. Really nice and down to earth.
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09-21-2018, 12:45 AM
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#18
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame
If you go back and look at some of the interviews with Bobby Fischer, you will see him say the same things you mention here......
Much has been said about Magnus' play as well.......There is little to no creativity when you draw time after time ....
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Thanks for reaffirming what I thought...it makes a lot of sense really that the play would be more mechanical than creative...There is a saying that “good chess players are thinking and planning their moves 5-7 moves ahead...I never understood this...how could a player do this...when his opponent COULD move any number of moves in response to his next move...? The move permutations would be too large.
I thought I was deficient or incapable of being an excellent player...
But NOW, I understand HOW this can be the case...if you have memorized the openings, and the counter-moves to the openings, the traps and tricks for each, and understand how after a certain sequence of likely responses has occurred, you can “force” your opponent to move either through check or common sense...THEN...I can understand how a player can “think” 5-7 moves ahead...but that is not really creative play, but mechanics...
So yes, I think I now understand what Fisher and Magnus are saying...it’s sort of like an “If X is played, then respond with Y” and memorize all the permutations and response sequences...AHEAD OF TIME...
Where’s the fun in that...? You are NOT really PLAYING chess anymore...are you?
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 09-21-2018 at 12:48 AM.
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09-21-2018, 03:36 AM
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#19
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Collector
Anyone else here have a USCF rating?
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I had one many years ago. How long do they keep the records?
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Sapere aude
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09-21-2018, 12:38 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
Not checkers.
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If we can limit it to the 70s chess of my childhood. The true golden age.
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09-21-2018, 04:34 PM
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#21
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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I was wondering if Actor or anyone else good at science could read the following article and paraphrase the conclusions in laymans’ Vocabulary...it doesn’t seem too difficult to understand...
https://archive.org/stream/arxiv-cs9...ge/n0/mode/1up
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09-21-2018, 09:10 PM
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#22
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Good Players
Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
What is rinse, repeat..? I’d like to bring my game up a notch but not sure how...what do you think separates average players from good players; and great players from good ones..?
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One thing's for sure, it's not memory.
Calculation and vision to begin with-- like I said.
Good players are not necessarily intelligent, although great players probably are.
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09-21-2018, 09:29 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Good chess players take the game seriously...and dedicate the time to it that the game demands. When I was much younger, I loved the game...and I would buy finely-detailed chess books where the authors would report and comment on instructive chess matches that had occurred in the past. And I would laboriously replay those games on my own board...while trying to align myself with the thought process of the original players. It took me HOURS...but I enjoyed it.
Of course, gambling came along...and there wasn't enough time in my life for TWO heart-felt passions. "Why is our life so short?"...I remember lamenting back then. And now, after 37 years of serious gambling...I've come to the realization that life is long enough.
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"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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09-21-2018, 09:36 PM
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#24
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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I'm sure a great many of you in this thread have seen this movie, but for those that haven't, check it out...Good stuff.
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09-21-2018, 11:20 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
I had one many years ago. How long do they keep the records?
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Google 'uscf player lookup'
Plug in your name and voila.
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09-21-2018, 11:23 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
I'm sure a great many of you in this thread have seen this movie, but for those that haven't, check it out...Good stuff.
https://youtu.be/8khmNiamBxo
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That was a good one. My favorite is Life of a King, loosely based on a true story. Inspiring. Best performance by Cuba gooding IMO.
Queen of Katwe was good also.
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09-21-2018, 11:43 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
One thing's for sure, it's not memory.
Calculation and vision to begin with-- like I said.
Good players are not necessarily intelligent, although great players probably are.
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Three things our best of the best students current and past have in common.
No fear of failure. None. Supreme confidence, yet not afraid to experiment and lose in prep matches to less talented players.
They have no less than two solid openings. If you're a member of a chess team this is an absolute must
They're the equivalent of gym rats, in regards to chess. We end each class with masters games (we create the notation paper and give to everyone in class) and walk thru them on a demo board. You can tell who the better players are and will be. They break down key moves and comment all the way thru. They can't get enough information.
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09-21-2018, 11:52 PM
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#28
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong
That was a good one. My favorite is Life of a King, loosely based on a true story. Inspiring. Best performance by Cuba gooding IMO.
Queen of Katwe was good also.
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Pawn Sacrifice is worth watching as well...
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09-22-2018, 12:01 AM
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#29
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong
Three things our best of the best students current and past have in common.
No fear of failure. None. Supreme confidence, yet not afraid to experiment and lose in prep matches to less talented players.
They have no less than two solid openings. If you're a member of a chess team this is an absolute must
They're the equivalent of gym rats, in regards to chess. We end each class with masters games (we create the notation paper and give to everyone in class) and walk thru them on a demo board. You can tell who the better players are and will be. They break down key moves and comment all the way thru. They can't get enough information.
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I believe Napoleon said it best, “Toujours l’attaque!”
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09-22-2018, 01:44 AM
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#30
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong
Three things our best of the best students current and past have in common.
No fear of failure. None. Supreme confidence, yet not afraid to experiment and lose in prep matches to less talented players.
They have no less than two solid openings. If you're a member of a chess team this is an absolute must
They're the equivalent of gym rats, in regards to chess. We end each class with masters games (we create the notation paper and give to everyone in class) and walk thru them on a demo board. You can tell who the better players are and will be. They break down key moves and comment all the way thru. They can't get enough information.
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What notation are you using and how is it displayed, vertically in 2 columns...?
I once talked with a guy who was always wanting to play chess without a board, strictly mental game...he would simply begin calling out his moves and expected me to play along...and remember what the board looked like in my head...I never doubted he was serious, but I simply wasn’t very good at it: homey don’t play that game.. very well at least...
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