Starting to see Baffert as a villain?

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by pandy

This list of drug violations per start is a few years old, but Baffert is right up there with the usual suspects. The trainers near the bottom are great trainers.

Until drugs are eliminated entirely I don't think anyone can be sure who the great trainers (or horses) really are. Certainly there are great ones under the current system. As for the list though you have drugs and you have testing so you will eventually have drugs that are detected at some point, it's inevitable. I mean what does this indicate, is there something sloppy about the way Rudy does things or is NYRA's testing maybe a bit more thorough than others, maybe a combination of the two? They're all 'treating' their horses, most of it is legal stuff as long as it clears on race day. It's a slippery slope. I mean think of steroids, if the guy is jacked but it clears his system does the test matter? He wouldn't look like that without stuff in the first place, and these horses wouldn't run like this, so clearing a test is nice and all but I'm not sure everyone testing clean on raceday solves the problem.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by pandy

The trainers near the bottom are great trainers.

Not suprisingly, Motion, McPeek, Clemente, Casse, all members of WHOA.

Betcha Attfeild and the late vanBerg would also come out on the bottom of that list, too.

Kudos to Congressman Andy Barr (R-KY) and Congressman Paul Tonko (D-NY) to keep reintroducing the Horseracing Integrity Act and keeping up with it.

[Tom]

Authentic was working up a strom - 6F, 1m, 6F, 6F,5F, all sine Aug 8.

His 101 Beyer tied the BEST fig any of the horse in the Woodward had ever run. And it came in the midst of a grinding forward figure pattern.

No surprise he won.
I used him in the Supers but not my top 4 exacta box. Post position was my concern.

Top four Beyers were 109 102 101 101.

[CaptainObvious]

Originally Posted by Tom

Authentic was working up a strom - 6F, 1m, 6F, 6F,5F, all sine Aug 8.

His 101 Beyer tied the BEST fig any of the horse in the Woodward had ever run. And it came in the midst of a grinding forward figure pattern.

No surprise he won.
I used him in the Supers but not my top 4 exacta box. Post position was my concern.

Top four Beyers were 109 102 101 101.

He sure didn’t look like the same horse barely hanging on last time out going 9 panels.

I was impressed how he found another gear after Tiz headed him at the top of the stretch.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by pandy

This list of drug violations per start is a few years old, but Baffert is right up there with the usual suspects. The trainers near the bottom are great trainers.

interesting list, did not know that McPeek was in the cheater catagory.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

He sure didn’t look like the same horse barely hanging on last time out going 9 panels.

I was impressed how he found another gear after Tiz headed him at the top of the stretch.

he looked like the horse that was cruising to an easy victory until he started goofing around at the end in the Haskell, today he didnt.

There were three talented horses after the scratch, the 16, 17 and 18. No shock one of the three won. I am still surprised, and so is my wallet that the 17 didnt run on by.

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

He sure didn’t look like the same horse barely hanging on last time out going 9 panels.

I was impressed how he found another gear after Tiz headed him at the top of the stretch.

I think it's very obvious, the horse was not fully cranked for the Haskell, which gave everybody(including me) the false impression he would not go 10F. The horse has only lost 1 race, he was seriously overlaid in the Derby. This is what good trainers do.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Attacking one of the sports most successful trainers and accusing him of cheating without any real evidence,Can this be a good thing for our sport?

There's a lot of evidence. Did you view my list of trainers with the most drug violations? Baffert ranks third and that list is a few years old. He's had more since including the two big ones at Oaklawn this year. But the 7 horses of his that dropped dead in a relatively short span of time is alarming. Ask any horseman and they'll tell you that young horses rarely just drop dead from heart failure. The fact that the racing industry, especially the CHRB, let him get away with it without even a fine shows how corrupt they are.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Tom

Authentic was working up a strom - 6F, 1m, 6F, 6F,5F, all sine Aug 8.

The work pattern was definitely notable. Obviously, in retrospect, Baffert was trying to put some stamina into the horse with those 6f and 1m works. No blowouts.

[theotherside]

Yes I saw your list.Your list shows that many trainers have violations.That's the point.Singling out Baffert because you suspect he must of drugged his horse to win the derby is irresponsible and hurtful to the industry and sport.The drug problem is wide spread and needs to be dealt with,But accusing him of cheating in one of the most popular and visible races in the world before any drug testing on his horse is not the way to do it.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Yes I saw your list.Your list shows that many trainers have violations.That's the point.Singling out Baffert because you suspect he must of drugged his horse to win the derby is irresponsible and hurtful to the industry and sport.The drug problem is wide spread and needs to be dealt with,But accusing him of cheating in one of the most popular and visible races in the world before any drug testing on his horse is not the way to do it.

Actually, the thread started with "is Baffert becoming a villain" not accusing him of cheating with this particular horse. His long history of horses that can rebreak at the top of the stretch, improve rapidly out of nowhere, drop dead out of nowhere, and all of the drug positives are worth considering. Is it good in 2020 that this guy is still dominating major races? Is it good for racing's image? I think those are valid questions.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Singling out Baffert ... is irresponsible ...

accusing him of cheating in one of the most popular and visible races in the world before any drug testing on his horse is not the way to do it.

Sensible.


Can't somebody just be 'great'? Without a vocal-minority of 'haters'??

Was Jordan on steroids?? Was Bird on steroids??

Can't someone just work hard, and win, an be 'great'?

Don't sink to the level of the 'Twitter' conspiracy theorists.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Actually, the thread started with "is Baffert becoming a villain" not accusing him of cheating with this particular horse. His long history of horses that can rebreak at the top of the stretch, improve rapidly out of nowhere, drop dead out of nowhere, and all of the drug positives are worth considering. Is it good in 2020 that this guy is still dominating major races? Is it good for racing's image? I think those are valid questions.

Thank you for pointing that out. I never mentioned drugs etc, but I think this went that way organically.

[dilanesp]

The reality is that once a few successful people dope, you end up with an industry full of dopers. That happened in baseball, track and field and cycling. And it has happened in horse racing.

Singling out one villain doesn't solve the problem. The sterioid era in baseball wasn't Barry Bonds' fault, for instance.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by pandy

Yes, there's no question that generally speaking, Baffert has shown a good face to the sport most of the time (not always, he whines and complains when he doesn't get his way in Southern California). But his cheating is as obvious as it can be because you just don't get that lucky to have superstar horses, even if you buy expensive horses. Other trainers get to train very expensive well bred horses, like Pletcher, the Godolphin stables, and horses trained by Bill Mott, etc., and they win a lot of stakes races, but their horses run good races, not sensational races. Naturally, if you train a lot of good horses for a long time, eventually you may be lucky enough to get one horse that sets world records and does amazing things. But not a whole slew of them.

Just in SoCal, you see all the expensive horses that a top trainer like RMandella gets, and he hasn't had more than a couple horses of national prominence in the past decade.