Climate Change

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by incoming

How long will it take China to raise their Prices on steel or solar panels? We can't compete against China's large cheap labor base.

China isn't raising the price on steel or solar panels. US tariffs on those things are raising the price to American consumers.

And "China's large cheap labor base" isn't what it used to be. Chinese labor costs are increasing. That and American tariffs on Chinese products are driving many private corporations in China to move their operations to more favorable sites, such as Vietnam. Cheaper labor there and no tariffs on products exported to the US.

[Buckeye]

Come on man, Vietnamese Steel?

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Clocker

What you just said is screw the American public. Screw homeowners that want to install low cost solar. Screw the installers that make a living doing that. And what is the up-side?

There are a few solar panel manufacturers still operating in the US. Oops, those plants are owned by Chinese corporations, and they create some American jobs. Should we drop "economic bombs" on them too? If we drop "economic bombs" on China, will that give them the incentive to build more largely automated plants in this country?

Just think about it for a minute, the time that it takes in years to get back your investment in such solar panels is so long half of those who invest die before recouping the moneys spent. Those impacted because the Chinese get shut out of market share mean nothing as the world turns, your harping suggests that you have a dog in the race. No one really gives a rats ass about solar panels more than the exporters and importers who stand to make on the deals. The economy perspective will be filled by investors inside other markets, just something that did not take off. The time to recoup moneys spent on solar panels will just be longer. California has a mandate for solar panels, maybe this will be the straw that breaks its back. Until the next time you go on about solar panels we will see how this plays out.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

Come on man, Vietnamese Steel?

Is steel labor intensive?

[Buckeye]

I'll answer that as soon as there is such a thing as Vietnamese Steel.

[incoming]

Originally Posted by Clocker

China isn't raising the price on steel or solar panels. US tariffs on those things are raising the price to American consumers.

And "China's large cheap labor base" isn't what it used to be. Chinese labor costs are increasing. That and American tariffs on Chinese products are driving many private corporations in China to move their operations to more favorable sites, such as Vietnam. Cheaper labor there and no tariffs on products exported to the US.

Are you saying China's endgame doesn't include raising prices?

Why is it ok for China to impose tariffs on our export and not expect USA to retaliate?

USA is responsible for 1/2 of all of the trades that take place on this Planet. The money used for these trades is the US dollar. All China has to do to stop USA tariffs is renegotiate the trade deficit. Wonder who will win this battle. If you get a chance take a gander at China's stock market and economy. Another thing you might want to search......100's of empty cities in China that they have built.....wonder why.

[Buckeye]

USA holds all the cards, China will see that or fold up.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by incoming

Why is it ok for China to impose tariffs on our export and not expect USA to retaliate?

Tariffs are a tax on your own citizens. If China taxes its own citizens for importing American goods, how is it "retaliating" for the US to tax its own citizens for Chinese goods?

How are American consumers better off if they have to pay more for imported goods because of tariffs? Or to be deprived of freedom of choice and forced to pay more for American-made products? Why can't I make that decision to buy imports or American-made, without the government trying to make the decision for me?

[Buckeye]

I strongly believe they will come to the table and negotiate.

Who else are they going to sell to?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Tariffs are a tax on your own citizens. If China taxes its own citizens for importing American goods, how is it "retaliating" for the US to tax its own citizens for Chinese goods?

How are American consumers better off if they have to pay more for imported goods because of tariffs? Or to be deprived of freedom of choice and forced to pay more for American-made products? Why can't I make that decision to buy imports or American-made, without the government trying to make the decision for me?

In short, you are fine with countries putting tariffs on American products, and not vice-versa for other countries products when imported into America?


You do realize, that in a global economy that it becomes extremely difficult for American based companies to remain American-based with American labor to compete for global dollars, right?

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Tariffs are a tax on your own citizens. If China taxes its own citizens for importing American goods, how is it "retaliating" for the US to tax its own citizens for Chinese goods?

How are American consumers better off if they have to pay more for imported goods because of tariffs? Or to be deprived of freedom of choice and forced to pay more for American-made products? Why can't I make that decision to buy imports or American-made, without the government trying to make the decision for me?

Excellent argument for Free Trade, not that you tried to do it.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

I strongly believe they will come to the table and negotiate.

Who else are they going to sell to?

Yep.


We are the world gluttons of consumerism. And THE market on the entire planet. (At least for now).

[incoming]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Tariffs are a tax on your own citizens. If China taxes its own citizens for importing American goods, how is it "retaliating" for the US to tax its own citizens for Chinese goods?

How are American consumers better off if they have to pay more for imported goods because of tariffs? Or to be deprived of freedom of choice and forced to pay more for American-made products? Why can't I make that decision to buy imports or American-made, without the government trying to make the decision for me?

The savings will come by cutting government and government workers, the endgame will be a balanced budget.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by incoming

the endgame will be a balanced budget.

With a tax cut and a spending increase under the Republicans?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by Clocker

With a tax cut and a spending increase under the Republicans?

Here is the cold hard reality Clocker.

Social Security was put together at a time when people were putting in pennies, dimes, and maybe a few dollars a paycheck.

Those same people are now getting thousands per "paycheck" while people are living much longer than any repayment benefit plan model former generations ever thought about.

Social Security wasn't invested into the stock market, it was left to sit as future generations and wages were expected to "cover" the cost.

Guess what. We aren't reproducing at the same rate the "we'll take everything" generation that was the Baby Boomers.

At some point, these entitlements (Yes, entitlements) have to quit giving so much. Question is, who will pay the price?

Obviously it doesn't sound like the Boomers will want to take that hit as they continue to be the most 'taking' generation in the history of the planet.

What will likely happen, is my generation will take the hit (once again), so that future generations will actually be investing into something once again.