Tunnel systems

[Tom]

I make a motion that we start lobbing rockets at the UN.
When do we wake up, quit the stupid waste of time and kick thier asses out of NYC?

The League of Loser Nations.....Put all of the members together and they make up about 33 states. Countries? give me a break. You are not a country when you can't defend yourselves or feed your people. You might be a lodge......

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

You are not a country when you can't defend yourselves or feed your people. You might be a lodge......

Or maybe they could be a community, if they only had an organizer.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Tom

I make a motion that we start lobbing rockets at the UN.
When do we wake up, quit the stupid waste of time and kick thier asses out of NYC?

It is estimated that the UN contributes over 3 billion per year to NYC's economy.

Plus, in the event of a terrorist attack the UN building would make a nifty bomb shelter.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by TJDave

It is estimated that the UN contributes over 3 billion per year to NYC's economy.

Probably true.

In the meanwhile the U.S. spends billions more funding the U.N.

Why not just do away with it and give 3 billion to NY?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ett-d-schaefer

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Why not just do away with it and give 3 billion to NY?

I'm guessing that $3 billion number is the gross spending contribution to the NYC economy. Hard to tell how much of that is trickling down into the city coffers to pay for infrastructure, police, etc., dedicated to the UN.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Tom

I make a motion that we start lobbing rockets at the UN.
When do we wake up, quit the stupid waste of time and kick thier asses out of NYC?

The League of Loser Nations.....Put all of the members together and they make up about 33 states. Countries? give me a break. You are not a country when you can't defend yourselves or feed your people. You might be a lodge......

I don't know what to do about the rockets end of the post, but I am confident the New York stock exchange and everyone else would be better off without that carload of idiots in New York. Perhaps it is a better idea making stinging statements without crossing into end of days. Your support of Israel is unquestioned and admired at least by me.

[classhandicapper]

IMO there is no solution to this problem on the current path!

The Palestinians (and much of the rest of the Arab world) will always and forever feel that the land was unjustly taken, promised to the Jews due to all the antisemitism around the world, and ultimately given to the Jews by the Brits and Americans via the UN which drove Palestinians from their homes and put a massive Jewish immigration into motion. IMO a two state solution can never settle that problem unless the Palestinians so are so beaten to a pulp they can't take it anymore. Otherwise, they will always feel they are fighting for homes that were unjustly taken away. That kind of passion will never go away.

The alternative would be a one state solution that they share, but that's a non starter for the Jews because the demographics will eventually favor the Palestinians and the Jews would lose control.

IMO there is no sensible course of action other than perhaps trying to improve the economic situation of the Palestinians to the point they are less concerned about "country and land" and more concerned about sustaining their economic well being. At that point they could be granted more freedom to move around and might not care enough to fight and die. That's not going to happen when they are locked down in extreme poverty and angry as all hell.

[dartman51]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

IMO there is no solution to this problem on the current path!

The Palestinians (and much of the rest of the Arab world) will always and forever feel that the land was unjustly taken, promised to the Jews due to all the antisemitism around the world, and ultimately given to the Jews by the Brits and Americans via the UN which drove Palestinians from their homes and put a massive Jewish immigration into motion. IMO a two state solution can never settle that problem unless the Palestinians so are so beaten to a pulp they can't take it anymore. Otherwise, they will always feel they are fighting for homes that were unjustly taken away. That kind of passion will never go away.

The alternative would be a one state solution that they share, but that's a non starter for the Jews because the demographics will eventually favor the Palestinians and the Jews would lose control.

IMO there is no sensible course of action other than perhaps trying to improve the economic situation of the Palestinians to the point they are less concerned about "country and land" and more concerned about sustaining their economic well being. At that point they could be granted more freedom to move around and might not care enough to fight and die. That's not going to happen when they are locked down in extreme poverty and angry as all hell.

They could take a lesson from the American Indian. They learned to deal with it.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by dartman51

They could take a lesson from the American Indian. They learned to deal with it.

The problem with that is that the American Indian didn't have sponsors.

Had it been just Israel vs. Palestine it would have been over before lunch.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by dartman51

They could take a lesson from the American Indian. They learned to deal with it.

They should build "Gazinos" on the "strip."
Buy your chips at the "West Bank."

ba dum.

[Marshall Bennett]

What's amazing is that Hamas uses it's people, woman and children, as human sacrifice and yet there are those in western cultures, including our on, that continue to support them. It's sickening.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dartman51

They could take a lesson from the American Indian. They learned to deal with it.

I would say that what happened to the Indians qualifies as being beaten to a pulp.

I have no ax to grind on this issue.

My feeling is that terrorism is always the wrong strategy. There's no way you are ever going to win the hearts and minds of the public killing innocent people. Even if you have some legitimate beefs, it's self destructive behavior. The Palestinian strategy is idiotic. It's so idiotic Israel couldn't do a better job of planning it themselves.

If I was a Palestinian full of anger and hate because I thought the world screwed my people etc... my strategy would be to openly declare to the world I would never accept a two state solution and then explain why. I'd declare I wanted a one state solution with both sides free and safe within the borders and protected by international forces. I'd try to get the demographics on my side.

Assuming the world would tell me to go "F" myself (which it certainly would now given that the Palestinians are seen as crazy), I would then continue the fight by only attacking military targets and the political leadership of Israel. That way I could continue the fight, but without exposing myself to backlash for the terrorist bombings of innocent citizens. You could do that indefinitely while screaming to the world every time Israel did anything that might contribute to world sympathy for the Palestinians. All the while you could continue working towards a one state solution with Palestinians seen as a reasonable majority.

If I was Israel, I'd try to expand economic ties with the Palestinians for things like food, water, medicine, and other essentials. Once you get them back on their feet, there's at least some small hope the anger and hate might dissipate. From there, you expand it further and eventually economics outweigh other factors and the area becomes freer, which in turn moves the chain further.

Maybe I'm naive, but IMO what both sides are doing now is idiotic and will never work.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

If I was Israel, I'd try to expand economic ties with the Palestinians for things like food, water, medicine, and other essentials. Once you get them back on their feet, there's at least some small hope the anger and hate might dissipate. From there, you expand it further and eventually economics outweigh other factors and the area becomes freer, which in turn moves the chain further.

Israel can't expand economic ties with Gaza because Hamas is the government there. Israel and Egypt are enforcing a land, air, and sea blockade of Gaza to prevent the movement of terrorists in and out of the country, and to prevent the import of materials to build tunnels and the smuggling of rockets and other weapons.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Israel can't expand economic ties with Gaza because Hamas is the government there. Israel and Egypt are enforcing a land, air, and sea blockade of Gaza to prevent the movement of terrorists in and out of the country, and to prevent the import of materials to build tunnels and the smuggling of rockets and other weapons.

That may be the case now, but this has been going on for decades and will probably continue long after I am gone unless the approach is changed on both sides. The problem has a 0% chance of being solved now. I'd rather at least shoot for 5%.

For example, those same blockades are probably also preventing food, water, medicine, and other essential items from coming in. So along with materials for weapons, they are also smuggling in life's essentials.

I'd be lobbing rockets too if my kids were sick and starving and I didn't really understand all the geopolitics.

How is this approach going to work?

There has to be a way to get the humanitarian aid in, improve relations with the people, while working towards getting some of the lunatics out of power. This has to move in a positive direction an inch at a time for 10-20 years to get anywhere.

[Tom]

Hard to have respect or sympathy for people that elected terrorists.
They made their beds, now they can lie in them.

As far as Israel goes, "whatever it takes."