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Old 06-10-2018, 12:58 PM   #31
Lemon Drop Husker
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
I don't think it is so much that those times were slow. It is that they were cut relaxed and well within himself instead of head and head and pinned in a duel which probably would have been the case if Geroux doesn't go to the parking lot on the 1st turn.

He was never pinned in Kentucky or Baltimore. What makes anyone believe that Noble Indy would have been able to 'pin' Justify much less put forth a duel better than Good Magic?


The black helicopters. They are circling.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:03 PM   #32
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Blinkers off.
He must be entered that way by rule with a blks. off card from the starter that is turned in at time of entry or before the draw depending on who has the card.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
When exactly did :23.1, :48, and 1:13.1 become a 'slow' pace in the Belmont?
Never said the pace of the race was slow. My point is that Justify has nature early speed and will respond to early pressure. We know Justify could and would have gone faster if someone pushed. IMO, it was easier for Smith to keep the pace sensible for his horse by keeping just in front of a "slower" horse.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
He was never pinned in Kentucky or Baltimore. What makes anyone believe that Noble Indy would have been able to 'pin' Justify much less put forth a duel better than Good Magic?


The black helicopters. They are circling.

C'Mon Man.

Don't try to belittle me.

Not sure what your black helicopters are and I did not type the name Noble Indy at all.

Exactly what are you talking about???

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Old 06-10-2018, 01:34 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
I don't think it is so much that those times were slow. It is that they were cut relaxed and well within himself instead of head and head and pinned in a duel which probably would have been the case if Geroux doesn't go to the parking lot on the 1st turn.
anyone who duals with Justify will not hit the board, its suicide if you ask me. I think you either have to clear him or take back, dueling with a horse of that quality, well, it aint ending well.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:47 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
C'Mon Man.

Don't try to belittle me.

Not sure what your black helicopters are and I did not type the name Noble Indy at all.

Exactly what are you talking about???

Wasn't trying to belittle you. If you took it that way, my sincere apologies.


I just don't see how Noble Indy would have even challenged Justify for the lead coming from the hole.



Promises Fulfilled and Good Magic took it to him and got whipped. Highly doubt Noble would have changed anything even if he took the lead.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
anyone who duals with Justify will not hit the board, its suicide if you ask me. I think you either have to clear him or take back, dueling with a horse of that quality, well, it aint ending well.
I completely agree.

He has shown that . The only thing that would possibly make him more vulnerable would be having to duel on the inside with his right eye covered up. That is a deal breaker for a lot of horses. My guess is he would become more aggressive and retake a forward position and run the other horse into the ground. The question would then be, at what cost if any, would there be at the 1/8th pole.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:56 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
He must be entered that way by rule with a blks. off card from the starter that is turned in at time of entry or before the draw depending on who has the card.
No way for me to know if he was entered that way, but the announcement came very late, way after the windows opened. I think it was after 1pm ET.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
Wasn't trying to belittle you. If you took it that way, my sincere apologies.


I just don't see how Noble Indy would have even challenged Justify for the lead coming from the hole.



Promises Fulfilled and Good Magic took it to him and got whipped. Highly doubt Noble would have changed anything even if he took the lead.
No problem. I think we are talking about different things. I don't think Indy had a prayer of running with Justify. Justify has sprinter type speed and runs all day. That is indeed very rare air.
What I was referring to was Geroux on Restored Hope. Had he not gone way out to get away from a duel, he very well could have compromised Justify's chances. We will never know if that is true or to what extent.
And that would have never happened if Geroux hadn't sent after breaking a half a step slow. But he did send him away from the gate. Pretty sure we all know why but that's not the point.
My point is that the outside horse always has the advantage in a duel especially if you can poke a head in front.
Justify has had great trips mainly because really good horses with speed create really good trips most of the time. His duel with Good Magic was taxing on both horses but with the inside horse typically taking the worst of it I have to assume it was tougher on Magic than it was on Justify.
I wonder how he will perform when and if he is pinned with his right eye covered up. There is a chance we will never see that. He's that fast. But that position is really tough to deal with and it takes a helluva horse to overcome that and still have gas in the tank at the 1/8th pole.
Hope that clears up what I was trying to say.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:24 PM   #40
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No way for me to know if he was entered that way, but the announcement came very late, way after the windows opened. I think it was after 1pm ET.
Wow. If it didn't make the program he still could have entered that way but that is a rare miss in the racing office. I have seen it happen before though.
I hope exactly what happened comes out so there are no questions.
Sure hope they didn't do anybody favors. That would stink.
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
Wow. If it didn't make the program he still could have entered that way but that is a rare miss in the racing office. I have seen it happen before though.
I hope exactly what happened comes out so there are no questions.
Sure hope they didn't do anybody favors. That would stink.
Nope, it was not a mistake, here from the draw

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Old 06-10-2018, 02:58 PM   #42
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Nope, it was not a mistake, here from the draw

https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/statu...15756169220096
Wow !!

Has there been any explanation yet??

That's not cool at all.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:23 PM   #43
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Everyone simply must view the HEAD-ON provided by NYRA website before they take it down...viewing the head-on replay goes far in showing exactly how the uncoupled team effort of Restoring Hope, Noble Indy, and Justify led to the Baffert victory with Justify...you’ll see how the the team functioned to corral and pin early, then impede late while what looks like a purposeful dropping completely out of it of the two pretenders...

Especially important to see is the conversation taking place between Javy and Florent at the top of the stretch, at about the 6:50 minute point in the replay, well before the race was completely over...completely distracted from riding their mounts,talking to each other, and looking into the infield, presumably at big screens, probably to see if Justify indeed had held on...never seen anything quite like this before, and is really quite unsettling for me...seems really beyond bad optics in my opinion...

https://www.nyra.com/belmont/racing/replays

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Old 06-10-2018, 03:34 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
No problem. I think we are talking about different things. I don't think Indy had a prayer of running with Justify. Justify has sprinter type speed and runs all day. That is indeed very rare air.
What I was referring to was Geroux on Restored Hope. Had he not gone way out to get away from a duel, he very well could have compromised Justify's chances. We will never know if that is true or to what extent.
And that would have never happened if Geroux hadn't sent after breaking a half a step slow. But he did send him away from the gate. Pretty sure we all know why but that's not the point.
My point is that the outside horse always has the advantage in a duel especially if you can poke a head in front.
Justify has had great trips mainly because really good horses with speed create really good trips most of the time. His duel with Good Magic was taxing on both horses but with the inside horse typically taking the worst of it I have to assume it was tougher on Magic than it was on Justify.
I wonder how he will perform when and if he is pinned with his right eye covered up. There is a chance we will never see that. He's that fast. But that position is really tough to deal with and it takes a helluva horse to overcome that and still have gas in the tank at the 1/8th pole.
Hope that clears up what I was trying to say.

Fair.



I know we all want 'fair' racing as much as it can happen. Especially at the highest of levels like a horse looking to achieve something only other 12 others have done before.


It just gets tiring to hear about controversy over every little misstep.



Secretariat beat 21 rivals on his way to the Triple Crown in 1973. Justify just fended off 37.


The new standards and criticism will never be met.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey View Post
Everyone simply must view the head-on provided by NYRA website before they take it down...viewing the replay goes far in showing exactly how the uncoupled team effort of Restoring Hope, Noble Indy, and Justify led to the Baffert victory with Justify...you’ll see how the the team functioned to corral and pin early, then impede late while what looks like a purposeful dropping completely out of it...

Especially important to see is the conversation taking place between Javy and Florent at the top of the stretch, at about the 6:50 minute point one the replay, well before the race was completely over...completely distracted from riding their mounts,talking to each other, and looking into the infield, presumably at big screens, probably to see if Justify indeed had held on...never seen anything quite like this before, and is really quite unsettling for me...seems really beyond bad optics in my opinion...

https://www.nyra.com/belmont/racing/replays
I had already watched it. The riders talking did not bother me that much if you are referring to the two riders waay back at around the 1/8th pole.
Because of the scope of the race, I could see them talking or watching the screen and not be upset about it. Talking actually goes on more than most would think especially when they are hopelessly beaten . On a normal day you can usually hear them unless the wind is blowing the voices away. But with that crowd, forget it.
However I can understand your frustration if you equate what they were saying to the nonsense that Geroux was doing early on. That is not cool, it is worse optics and people that want a further explanation about Restoring Hope would have every right to ask questions.
Still want to hear about the Blks. off thing. I find that interesting as well.
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