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Old 06-10-2018, 11:54 AM   #16
Lemon Drop Husker
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Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
Coupled or uncoupled wouldnít help in this situation, because we all know who was the horse most well intended...

And yes it didnít change a thing but just a bad bad bad look.

Excellent point.



Looked horrible, but I don't think it ever really mattered like you stated.



Justify was a half second faster than the 4YOs and older crowd in the Brooklyn with Hop winning. Heck, Gronk would have been right there at the wire and maybe even won the Brooklyn.



I think the goal posts have moved so far now that many feel Triple Crown contenders need to be extremely tested at every fraction of every race in the series these days to be considered 'great'. 20 horse fields, monsoon weather track conditions, and the grind that is the Triple Crown simply isn't good enough anymore. A Triple Crown winner nowadays needs to face the ghosts of Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed before he is ever judged as 'worthy'.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:46 PM   #17
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Restoring Hope broke a half a step slow and was sent along early to get a forward position. But the horse became too aggressive and started to run off. Geroux was NOT going to get into Justifys right eye and take away any chance of Justify being able to relax early so he did the only thing he could do. He took him much wider than he normally would have to stay away from Justify.

We will never know if Justify could have dealt with being pinned and had enough left to win but he would not have been clean of outside pressure , doubtful he would have stayed totally within himself and relaxed and allowed to slow down and cut 24 4/5ths for a 48 half and then a 25 1/5 for a 1:13 1/5th three quarters , and then a 24 4/5ths for the mile.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey View Post
Shortly before the Belmont Stakes was run...my track buddies and I discussed what pace roles Restoring Hope and Noble Indy would play out...I suggested that Restoring Hope would be used tactically to block other horses trying to challenge the lead of Justify, by gatekeeping the 2,3, and 4 path near the front, and that Noble Indy would not likely challenge Justify up front...
...My friends scoffed, and asked me if Baffert really needs such tactics in order for a Justify victory?

Still I wondered why Restoring Hope was in the race...as it turned out, Restoring Hope did exactly that, weaving out and in, before just plain dropping out of it like an impediment anchor in the way of other horses coming on late...if you read the race charts, thatís just how it played out...while Noble Indy ran a hugely uninteresting tactical race and finished dismally, last in fact...from my point of view, it appears these horses were never intended to disrupt the making of history by Justify...any thoughts?
I completely agree with you.
Optics were bad on so many levels.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ruffian1 View Post
Restoring Hope broke a half a step slow and was sent along early to get a forward position. But the horse became too aggressive and started to run off. Geroux was NOT going to get into Justifys right eye and take away any chance of Justify being able to relax early so he did the only thing he could do. He took him much wider than he normally would have to stay away from Justify.

We will never know if Justify could have dealt with being pinned and had enough left to win but he would not have been clean of outside pressure , doubtful he would have stayed totally within himself and relaxed and allowed to slow down and cut 24 4/5ths for a 48 half and then a 25 1/5 for a 1:13 1/5th three quarters , and then a 24 4/5ths for the mile.
Sort of made it easier for Smith to hold at a sensible pace. He could keep the slower horse close, and as long as he had that horse just behind his hip he knew he was at a slower pace.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
Sort of made it easier for Smith to hold at a sensible pace. He could keep the slower horse close, and as long as he had that horse just behind his hip he knew he was at a slower pace.

When exactly did :23.1, :48, and 1:13.1 become a 'slow' pace in the Belmont?
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #21
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No one mentions the "optics" when Cordero used to attack shippers in the Belmont.

Or every racing at NYRA with all the Sheep herders posing as jockeys, or riders grabbing and chocking out of the gate.

The optics I got was this California horse showed them all what a winner looks like. Just like the OTHER California horse did in the Brooklyn.

The "optics" on all the papers this morning were about a great horse winning a TC!

Think of the race as roller derby - Baffert came prepared to stop the jammers.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:34 PM   #22
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Did I see right that the stewards allowed an equipment change well after betting had begun on Restoring Hope?
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Tom View Post
No one mentions the "optics" when Cordero used to attack shippers in the Belmont.

Or every racing at NYRA with all the Sheep herders posing as jockeys, or riders grabbing and chocking out of the gate.

The optics I got was this California horse showed them all what a winner looks like. Just like the OTHER California horse did in the Brooklyn.

The "optics" on all the papers this morning were about a great horse winning a TC!

Think of the race as roller derby - Baffert came prepared to stop the jammers.
and the Phipps
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:35 PM   #24
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As far as the tactics, it didn't matter in the end, but not really a good look either.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:36 PM   #25
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Did I see right that the stewards allowed an equipment change well after betting had begun on Restoring Hope?
yes, that was a crap move, and IMO should have been a scratch of the horse. Very unfair.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
When exactly did :23.1, :48, and 1:13.1 become a 'slow' pace in the Belmont?
I don't think it is so much that those times were slow. It is that they were cut relaxed and well within himself instead of head and head and pinned in a duel which probably would have been the case if Geroux doesn't go to the parking lot on the 1st turn.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:51 PM   #27
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yes, that was a crap move, and IMO should have been a scratch of the horse. Very unfair.
Wow, unbelievable. Mind boggling that would be allowed.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #28
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Did I see right that the stewards allowed an equipment change well after betting had begun on Restoring Hope?
What was the equipment change?
Tom- your opinion means zero to me.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
When exactly did :23.1, :48, and 1:13.1 become a 'slow' pace in the Belmont?
I agree Husker. Did some quick chart lookups of recent Belmonts and I don't think one would conclude the pace is slow. The pace is slow relative to what was needed to push Justify, and also relative to the 23.37 first quarter, which was fast relative to the immediately succeeding quarters. The two 50 second half miles- the one from 1Q-3Q and 2Q-4Q- really made the difference in my view. Justify went quick early to establish himself, then got away with some soft middle splits. I happen to think the blocker helped him with that, especially when squeezing Bravazo going around the Clubhouse turn.

The first quarter by the way was the fastest as far as I could tell since Bob and John and High Finance dueled in Jazil's 2006 Belmont. Even one of the more famous Belmont's- Smarty Jones 2004 loss- went 24.33 and 48.65. What killed Smarty were the 47.50 1Q-3Q half, and sub 47 2Q-4Q half. Justify never endured those types of challenges, and he just cruised around there.

Last edited by alhattab; 06-10-2018 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:55 PM   #30
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What was the equipment change?
Tom- your opinion means zero to me.
Blinkers off.
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