Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

More blather and irrelevant nonsense as to Calvin's commentary. The art of deflection by boxcar.

You should take advantage of my lessons. I taught you the difference between qualified and unqualified statements -- right from Scripture, too. Has many such examples.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Only in Humpty Dumpty world. Of course the qualifying phrase as every true believer changes the complete meaning of your poorly written sentence.

YES, for, what the 100th time, you could have put more thought into your sentence and wrote a better sentence. You didn't and you lied about using a qualifier saying methinks I said.

You wrote a poor sentence, trying to make an idiotic claim, and now you have to live with what you wrote about your idiotic claim.

But "methinks I said" wasn't in the original sentence to which I was referring, so it didn't qualify my original sentence in which I essentially said that Calvin discovered the true gospel. I wrote a very good sentence. Nothing in it was qualified because nothing required qualification.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Quidquid recipitur est recipitur.

That makes about as much sense as any your posts, which are all NONsense.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

I guess so. I don't know how to speak Humpty Dumpty.

You don't know how speak...period!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Only in Humpty Dumpty world. Of course the qualifying phrase as every true believer changes the complete meaning of your poorly written sentence.

Elaborate. How does it change the complete meaning of the verb "discovered".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Boxie:

These should be an easy questions.

You believe in double predestination, correct?

God determines who is saved and who is condemned in eternity past, correct

You believe you would be saved no matter what, even if you were born in a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist practicing nation or some isolated area, is that correct?

God preordained your salvation prior to you being born, correct?

Here is one easy answer: Stuff all your questions in whatever orifice you see fit until you define "man" for me in your 3605!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by hcap

The context of Matthew 13:33 was where and what he kingdom of heaven was . It further elaborated on yes a a similar metaphor for growth or something rising or expanding.

As the preceding parable about the mustard seed was. The Pharisees were believers in the Letter of the law versus the spirit of the Law. Exactly what you follow.And absolutely the wrong context to use.

Originally Posted by Mr Senility

And that, sir, is precisely what made the Pharisees evil -- what made them sons of the devil, as well as their "leaven" (teaching) as being evil. Why do you think Jesus also said of the Pharisees.......

What a total deflection.

I started this discussion with post #3796 in which I said .....

I am not a Christian, but it seems clear "sowed in his field" refers to the inner man. The old boxcarian argument about the The kingdom of heaven being in the midst of a group is just denial of within.

Btw, the growth of the lowly mustard seed and its RISE is a common metaphor in different forms appearing in many religions and teachings. Jews eating matzoh or UNLEAVENED bread during Pesach is a remembrance of the difficulties wandering in search of the promised land and lacking manna to help RISE the spirit, not some sort of evilness(again and again, holy shit!) as boxcar claimed.

Further "the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof" in Sufism refers to the higher mental and spiritual powers.

So the Pharisees bringing evil has nothing to do with leavening of bread. Leavening is used in a few ways. The greater meaning is to contribute to the spread of something. Could be spirit as well. But you have evil on your brain, and can't see beyond your "evil" nose.

CLEALY the parables I noted, talk about the spread of the kingdom of heaven and it is why you should use it in this context.

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.....Matthew 13:33

You just can't stay on topic. I am not going to go any further illustrating the metaphorical aspect and how it is shared among all major religions. You will just tear it down into trivial non-relevant literal minded nonsense.

[hcap]

Not being a Christian arguing about the Kingdom of Heaven made me wonder about the similar phrase Kingdom of God.

Found this...

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...dom-of-god/425

Although there are some who believe they are different, others think they are the same



The phrases “the kingdom of God” (ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ) and “the kingdom of Heaven” (ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν) occur eighty-six (86) times in the Textus Receptus (1550) Greek manuscript of the gospels.

Line Graph - Kingdom of God v. Kingdom of Heaven in the Gospels

The phrase “kingdom of Heaven” occurs thirty-two (32) times and only in the Gospel of Matthew. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs thirty-two (32) times in the Gospel of Luke, the most of any book in the Bible.

An examination of Synoptic parallels will demonstrate that the two phrases refer to the same idea.

“the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)

“Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)

“the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)

“the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)

“The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)

“Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)

“Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)

“a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 19:23) || “How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Luke 18:24)

In other words, “kingdom of God” = “kingdom of Heaven.”

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Not being a Christian arguing about the Kingdom of Heaven made me wonder about the similar phrase Kingdom of God.

Found this...

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...dom-of-god/425

Although there are some who believe they are different, others think they are the same



The phrases “the kingdom of God” (ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ) and “the kingdom of Heaven” (ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν) occur eighty-six (86) times in the Textus Receptus (1550) Greek manuscript of the gospels.

Line Graph - Kingdom of God v. Kingdom of Heaven in the Gospels

The phrase “kingdom of Heaven” occurs thirty-two (32) times and only in the Gospel of Matthew. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs thirty-two (32) times in the Gospel of Luke, the most of any book in the Bible.

An examination of Synoptic parallels will demonstrate that the two phrases refer to the same idea.

“the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)

“Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)

“the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)

“the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)

“The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)

“Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)

“Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)

“a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 19:23) || “How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Luke 18:24)

In other words, “kingdom of God” = “kingdom of Heaven.”

I could have told you that in one very short sentence. The phrases are synonymous.

But now that you have actually discovered (be prepared, folks, for SMTW to go ballistic) one of God's truths, how is it that Jesus so often taught about what it takes to enter the kingdom and what will keep us from entering therein when the kingdom has already entered us, according to your interpretation of LK 17:21? If the kingdom is in all men, universally, then how can it be that not all men will enter into that kingdom?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

What a total deflection.

I started this discussion with post #3796 in which I said .....


So the Pharisees bringing evil has nothing to do with leavening of bread. Leavening is used in a few ways. The greater meaning is to contribute to the spread of something. Could be spirit as well. But you have evil on your brain, and can't see beyond your "evil" nose.

CLEALY the parables I noted, talk about the spread of the kingdom of heaven and it is why you should use it in this context.



You just can't stay on topic. I am not going to go any further illustrating the metaphorical aspect and how it is shared among all major religions. You will just tear it down into trivial non-relevant literal minded nonsense.

Not a deflection at all. Totally on target. The CONTEXT of a passage determines how the term "leaven" is used. In the case of the Pharisees, it was used as metaphor for sin or evil. When Jesus warned his listeners to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees", he wasn't talking about the growth of the Pharisees' spirit.

[hcap]

The mustard seed

Matthew 13:31
He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

Mark 4:30-31
And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God . . . It is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

Luke 13:18-19
So He was saying, “What is the kingdom of God . . . It is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The mustard seed

Matthew 13:31
He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

Mark 4:30-31
And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God . . . It is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

Luke 13:18-19
So He was saying, “What is the kingdom of God . . . It is like a mustard seed . . . (NASB)

Yeah...and who was the man who sowed it in his field? And what is his field?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Not a deflection at all. Totally on target. The CONTEXT of a passage determines how the term "leaven" is used. In the case of the Pharisees, it was used as sin or evil. When Jesus told his listeners to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees", he wasn't talking about the growth of the Pharisees' spirit.

I said the Jews eat matzo on Pesach in remembrance of what they were missing due to leaving Egypt in great haste and not having time to let there bread rise. So this Christian parable is the context to be used,

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.....Matthew 13:33

Not the the Pharisees. Yes they preached a dumbed-down literal letter of the law version of Jewish law. Call it evil if you like, but when the Pharaoh freed the Israelites, it is said that they left in such a hurry that they could not wait for bread dough to rise (leaven). In commemoration, for the duration of Passover no leavened bread is eaten.

Leavening can refer to spreading different things and thoughts. It is used metaphorically. But it is up to us to determine which metaphor parable is applicable.

You can not.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...and who was the man who sowed it in his field? And what is his field?

If Jesus was among us as you claim the correct translation is, then why would anyone plant Jesus himself in their fields?

However if the kingdom of god/heaven is within us, each of us is responsible to "sow" his teachings in themselves.

You cannot sow the man or god, nor would anyone want to

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I said the Jews eat matzo on Pesach in remembrance of what they were missing due to leaving Egypt in great haste and not having time to let there bread rise. So this Christian parable is the context to be used,
Not the the Pharisees. Yes they preached a dumbed-down literal letter of the law version of Jewish law. Call it evil if you like, but when the Pharaoh freed the Israelites, it is said that they left in such a hurry that they could not wait for bread dough to rise (leaven). In commemoration, for the duration of Passover no leavened bread is eaten.

Leavening can refer to spreading different things and thoughts. It is used metaphorically. But it is up to us to determine which metaphor parable is applicable.

You can not.

Pure nonsense! You still haven't answered my question as to why no leaven was permitted in the households whatsoever. What did the prohibition of leaven in the Fest of the Unleavened Bread have to do with Israel leaving in haste. Moreover, the Passover was celebrated and eat en BEFORE the Hebrews left Egypt! It was not an eat-on-the-run situation. Read and learn!

Ex 12:15-20
15 'Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses; for whoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 'And on the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance. 18 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. 20 'You shall not eat anything leavened; in all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened bread.'"
NASB

And,

Ex 13:6-7
6 For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, and on the seventh day there shall be a feast to the Lord. 7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten throughout the seven days; and nothing leavened shall be seen among you, nor shall any leaven be seen among you in all your borders.
NASB

If leaven were a good thing, why the strict prohibition that no leaven whatsoever was was to be even seen among the Israelites? Couldn't be in their houses. And when they got to the Promised Land, it couldn't even be found within their borders! Leaving in haste, indeed...

By the way, the prohibition was so serious that any Hebrew who disobeyed this injunction was to to be cut off from Israel! In other words, capital punishment was the sentence!