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Old 03-22-2018, 08:55 AM   #61
Tom
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You guys really think computer controlled vehicles, once fully tested and fine tuned, won't be SAFER than all the idiot human drivers you and I almost get killed by every single day?
Operative words here being "fully tested and fine tuned."
Of course this is the future - no doubt about it. We walked on the freaking moon decades ago.

BUT, the technology is NOT full tested at this time, and in no way, shape or form should ANY testing be done with civilians on the test grounds unless fool-proof back up controls are in place.

I would love to the risk-assessment that was done on the testing.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:35 AM   #62
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A family can now own 1 car instead of 3. Not only that, but we can rent out the spare time if we want. That's an enticing proposition...

Lol though I get your point abt moonshot promises, the things I listed are very real and very tangible benefits are they not? Fewer people drunk driving is an unqualified success for any number of reasons
You can do that now. (have 1 car instead of 3 and rent out when not used)

Are you expecting roads specific for autodrives? Like no pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, crazy drivers...

Don't they have laws now about driving drunk? The have ignition blocks where you have to blow into something before car will start. This does nothing to prevent the drunk from stealing a normal car. Maybe they should require all vehicles have a ignition block...
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:07 AM   #63
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You can do that now. (have 1 car instead of 3 and rent out when not used)

Are you expecting roads specific for autodrives? Like no pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, crazy drivers...

Don't they have laws now about driving drunk? The have ignition blocks where you have to blow into something before car will start. This does nothing to prevent the drunk from stealing a normal car. Maybe they should require all vehicles have a ignition block...
When a car is autonomous, a family which feels the need to have many cars can purchase fewer. The car no longer has to stay where the person who drove it is.

Yes, someone can do something stupid and still drunk drive. They should be punished. But, when cars are autonomous, there will be fewer DUIs. How is this debatable?
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:11 AM   #64
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How many deaths are acceptable?
Assuming none of them are related to YOU, of course.
Fewer deaths/injuries than we currently have with human drivers. We have already hit this point. It's something that is testable. Even vehicles with driver assist features cut down on accidents. Hence my point about being a bad human if you're advocating against autonomous vehicles.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:12 AM   #65
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Operative words here being "fully tested and fine tuned."
Of course this is the future - no doubt about it. We walked on the freaking moon decades ago.

BUT, the technology is NOT full tested at this time, and in no way, shape or form should ANY testing be done with civilians on the test grounds unless fool-proof back up controls are in place.

I would love to the risk-assessment that was done on the testing.
What does fully tested mean to you?
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:13 AM   #66
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... Hence my point about being a bad human if you're advocating against autonomous vehicles.
Aren't you a bad person if you don't already own one of the Teslas? Or at least haven't quit gambling to start saving for one ASAP? Lives are on the line here.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:29 AM   #67
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What does fully tested mean to you?
Do you know anything about the computerized motion control systems that are needed to operate an autonomous vehicle?
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:37 AM   #68
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Aren't you a bad person if you don't already own one of the Teslas? Or at least haven't quit gambling to start saving for one ASAP? Lives are on the line here.
I ride a horse I never accepted this "driving" thing, personally
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:39 AM   #69
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Do you know anything about the computerized motion control systems that are needed to operate an autonomous vehicle?
Not as much as I'm guessing you think you do. What's your point? I'm no climate scientist, but it's clear there's global warming attributable to humans burning fossil fuels....
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:08 PM   #70
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I'm no climate scientist, but it's clear there's global warming attributable to humans burning fossil fuels....
Wow, who could have seen that coming?

It's all settled science and skeptics need to just listen to their betters who know what is good for them. Anyone that questions authority is a despicable human being.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:13 PM   #71
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Wow, who could have seen that coming?

It's all settled science and skeptics need to just listen to their betters who know what is good for them. Anyone that questions authority is a despicable human being.
There's no bomb emoji that I could drop in after that
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:58 PM   #72
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Do you know anything about the computerized motion control systems that are needed to operate an autonomous vehicle?

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Not as much as I'm guessing you think you do. What's your point? I'm no climate scientist, but it's clear there's global warming attributable to humans burning fossil fuels....
I am pretty sure I know more about computerized motion control than 99.999% of the population and then some. You seem to be very adamant about the benefits of autonomous vehicles with no understanding of what can cause catastrophic failures that lead to serious consequences.

Many of the items needed to operate the self driving car function best and have longer lifetimes in clean climate controlled environments, the exact opposite of what they will encounter over the road. Extreme hot, cold, moisture or vibration can cause immediate failure of components. Computer controlled systems don't always just shutdown when something causes a feedback loop to become corrupted, they can cause uncontrolled runaway motion. Also during the testing process these self driving cars are going to get care and maintenance they would never see if they sold to John Q. Public.

I am pretty sure there are plenty of people in here that have had a sensor fail on a car and send a false warning message, like when it tells you you have a flat tire when you don't or your windshield washer fluid is empty when you just filled it? What happens when a sensor controlling the motion of a self driving car fails?
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:18 PM   #73
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I am pretty sure I know more about computerized motion control than 99.999% of the population and then some. You seem to be very adamant about the benefits of autonomous vehicles with no understanding of what can cause catastrophic failures that lead to serious consequences.

Many of the items needed to operate the self driving car function best and have longer lifetimes in clean climate controlled environments, the exact opposite of what they will encounter over the road. Extreme hot, cold, moisture or vibration can cause immediate failure of components. Computer controlled systems don't always just shutdown when something causes a feedback loop to become corrupted, they can cause uncontrolled runaway motion. Also during the testing process these self driving cars are going to get care and maintenance they would never see if they sold to John Q. Public.

I am pretty sure there are plenty of people in here that have had a sensor fail on a car and send a false warning message, like when it tells you you have a flat tire when you don't or your windshield washer fluid is empty when you just filled it? What happens when a sensor controlling the motion of a self driving car fails?
Again, what's your point? Yes, there are engineering challenges. Did I say there weren't?
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:27 PM   #74
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I approached this with a few main arguments:

1. Skeptics seeing one article about an autonomous vehicle or feature failure and using it to argue something along the lines of "lol see this is ridiculous" is dangerous, stupid, and short sited

2. There are huge benefits to autonomous driving

3. There are already verifiable safety improvements when using driverless features. As such, if you're trying to persuade people away from thinking this technology is worth pursuing and worth pursing quickly, you're really doing harm.

4. Seems like people want the bar for adoption to be set at "it must never crash or cause a crash in any circumstance, ever". This is silly as we could make the roads safer with earlier adoption
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:29 PM   #75
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There is an awesome parallel here between this and CRW teams. Sure, perhaps you can handicap one race better than the computer. But over thousands and thousands of races, the CRW team using a well developed model will perform much better
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