Bring Dutrow Back

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The second article makes the same claim as well...at the very end.

Thanks. I didn't make it that far. Seems like that fantasy is well entrenched at this point if a few years later Dale Romans is repeating it.

The info is readily at hand:

http://breakdown.gaming.ny.gov/

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

The first article is incorrect when it states that Dutrow "went 11 years in New York without a fatal breakdown either in the morning or during a race".

Big Stack, who was dropping from a maiden claiming tag of $65K down to $16K in one fell swoop, was pulled up and vanned off in a race on July 1, 2009 at Belmont Park. The horse was subsequently euthanized.

Graded stakes winner Break Water Edison broke down in a workout and was euthanized on May 7, 2010.

Graded stakes winner Stradivinsky was injured in training and subsequently euthanized in June 2011.

Those are only incidents in New York. As someone pointed out, Lake Pontchartrain had to be euthanized after a race at Suffolk in 2001.

In addition, high profile horses like the 9yo Arson Squad and the 6yo Thunder Blitz broke down in workouts.

If I had the energy I'd try to figure out which 11 years the articles were referencing.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

If I had the energy I'd try to figure out which 11 years the articles were referencing.

Can't do it without some serious Doctor Who time bending moves.

Dutrow was not a full time trainer until 1998, which doesn't leave any room for an 11-year stretch free and clear of breakdowns.

On the other hand, if you start with 1979, the year he took out his license, you might have a shot. Of course, in the 11 years between 1979 and 1990, he won exactly 1 race...

[Tom]

Bizzaro World!

Racing can't time races, can't get the distances right, breaking the rules is not cheating, and the odds can change after the photo is taken.

And as long as everyone cheat, we can accept it.

OK, bring Drugtow back and give ME the 10 years.

[cj]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

ThoroughbredRulings.com seems to disagree with the article.

I wouldn't want to risk any money on those being all that accurate personally.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

During a hearing where he was appealing a denial of licensure by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, Dutrow himself admitted he falsified the identity of Wild Desert so that the horse would be allowed entry into the Aqueduct barn area. He admitted to falsifying a workout at Monmouth for the horse. He also admitted to running the horse under Bobby Frankel's name but still billed the owners for his share of the purse.

All this while serving a 60-day suspension. He also lied during the original investigation into the Wild Desert episode conducted in part by Monmouth officials.

Yeah, that is a guy we need back in the sport. SMH.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by cj

Yeah, that is a guy we need back in the sport. SMH.

You need to keep the current state of the "sport" in perspective.

Given the current state, I think letting Dutrow back in would be an improvement.

[cj]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You need to keep the current state of the "sport" in perspective.

Given the current state, I think letting Dutrow back in would be an improvement.

I totally get your point. There are some bad dudes out there. But you have to catch them. For whatever reason they aren't dumb enough to get caught like Dutrow. I don't see why not being able to catch them means he should be allowed back. Sorry, just can't muster up any sympathy for the guy. The Queen's Plate incident was really bad.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Tom

In a word, YES.
Cheaters do not belong in the game.

Why worry about giving trainers a second chance - are you going to give the people who lost their money a refund?

When trainers cheat, CUSTOMERS lose.

It’s like jockeys when they caught with a battery.

Once they find they can’t make the living they did outside of racing they beg to come back.

The people who lost money betting against a machine horse might dispute them coming back.

Allan

[Tom]

No one who cheated should ever be allowed back until they reimburse the pools money they stole from the customers.

Why do we give cheaters a second chance but not the cheated?

It is a real simple penalty to avoid - don't cheat.

Frankly, using a battery should mean a jail term.
Dittos drugging a horse.

These creeps are stealing $$$.
No matter how nice they treat their horseys.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Tom

No one who cheated should ever be allowed back until they reimburse the pools money they stole from the customers.

Why do we give cheaters a second chance but not the cheated?

It is a real simple penalty to avoid - don't cheat.

Frankly, using a battery should mean a jail term.
Dittos drugging a horse.

These creeps are stealing $$$.
No matter how nice they treat their horseys.

I'm not against cheaters having to reimburse those who held winning (but losing) tickets. I've often said that if someone could find a way of accomplishing this (class action suit?), that this above almost anything else would solve the problem.

I'd qualify what exactly is "cheating" though. I wouldn't want to see this penalty for a tiny overage of Bute or Lasix, for example. Definitely would for ANY Class 1 drug in a horse at any level. There should be some line between the two.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I'm not against cheaters having to reimburse those who held winning (but losing) tickets. I've often said that if someone could find a way of accomplishing this (class action suit?), that this above almost anything else would solve the problem.

I'd qualify what exactly is "cheating" though. I wouldn't want to see this penalty for a tiny overage of Bute or Lasix, for example. Definitely would for ANY Class 1 drug in a horse at any level. There should be some line between the two.

That's the tough part isn't it. I get the customer being worn out with all this crap but there are extenuating circumstances with darn near everything.
Gotta be careful but just like murder there are varying degrees of it.

There are certain drugs as well as actions that should get the life penalty. But in order to do this there will need to be locks on every barn and security in every barn 24 seven. That will never happen due to cost if management has to pay a penny.
If trainers do, many owners of lesser quality horses will not be able to stay in.
You can see that it's no easy fix .
That said, it was rampant drug cheating that had a big part of me leaving .

It does wear you down .It sure wore me down.

[Niko]

I liked Dutrow because he told it like it was, basically admitted that trainers would do anything to win once they got a horse..... as my daughter says so to me so often....duhh.

What I find interesting is that people want to clean up the sport but they want to bring Dutrow back? I'd like to get some more insight into the reasoning behind that

[Tom]

Kind of a mystery, isn't it?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Niko

I liked Dutrow because he told it like it was, basically admitted that trainers would do anything to win once they got a horse

When the hell did that occur?