Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 12-01-2022, 09:34 PM   #16
v j stauffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
VJ Stauffer,




Now, THAT is a helpful explanation that even a guy like me can make sense of.

Thank you.


To carry on with that, would you also say that perhaps a better jockey would have been able to get him to switch leads? Or even have changed the entire ride?


Dave
Sure it's possible.

If a horse is common it's tough to get that out of them.

But great hands and instincts can help.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
v j stauffer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 09:51 PM   #17
ranchwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 4,812
The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.

It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst

Last edited by ranchwest; 12-01-2022 at 10:02 PM.
ranchwest is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:11 PM   #18
v j stauffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchwest View Post
The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.

It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.
I don't think he LET him drift back.

I think when he asked him to maintain position, he didn't get anything from his mount.

Tapeta is funny. For some it's really hard to quicken. They have to gather momentum.

Very difficult for horses who don't like the surface.

Once he started to shuffle. Then the horse also showed he wasn't a fan of being inside and sucked himself all the way out of it.

Tough to ride and bad horses can make jocks look really bad sometimes.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
v j stauffer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:23 PM   #19
wisconsin
Registered User
 
wisconsin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Figure View Post
Sonny thought after winning the derby he would become a big time rider! He was very good in Ohio, but if he stays at GP when the big meet starts he’ll be lucky to win 10% of his mounts!

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
__________________
"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
wisconsin is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:29 PM   #20
ranchwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
I don't think he LET him drift back.
Correct. i poorly worded my response to earlier assertions.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst
ranchwest is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:30 PM   #21
Speed Figure
DJ M.Walk
 
Speed Figure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Compton, CA!
Posts: 2,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin View Post
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.
Speed Figure is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:31 PM   #22
ranchwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 4,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin View Post
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

He was over 12% at the meet.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst
ranchwest is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:39 PM   #23
Profesor
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Figure View Post
I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.
Championship meet? Tapeta has made Gulfstream irrelevant handle was down 30% last year it’s now known as the ChampionSHIT meet.
Profesor is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:44 PM   #24
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 82,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkey11 View Post
cheating we all know that never happens in games of chance does it ?and who said he cheated i did not read that word in the posts
thread is titled criminal act...way to be smart
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 10:48 PM   #25
the little guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin View Post
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
Actually, the supposed big meet begins on 12/26 this year. In prior years it would have started today.
the little guy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 11:09 PM   #26
Sheffwed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 119
I agree with Pace and TLG

there was no stiff job here

Gulfstream's Tapeta is actually extremely off the pace favoring for the most part (which I think makes it particularly bettable, given the reactions here and how slow people are to realize this, it's blatantly clear actually) - Sonny seemed to understand

Early Speed almost never holds on the Tapeta at Gulfstream

as for races never being stiffed, of course they are
Sheffwed is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-01-2022, 11:27 PM   #27
Inner Dirt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Beaverdam Virginia
Posts: 7,831
Without looking at a Racing Form I can't judge. I didn't see anything horrible about the ride, we are talking low level maiden claimers.
Inner Dirt is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-02-2022, 04:03 AM   #28
Spalding No!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,885
Ride reminds of me of when Eddie D. & Corey Black stiffed A.P. Indy & Flying Continental in the 1992 Belmont & 1990 Jockey Club Gold Cup, respectively.

I think a fair compromise to the debate here is that Leon "criminally overrated" his mount?
Spalding No! is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-02-2022, 05:44 AM   #29
porchy44
Registered User
 
porchy44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 700
it's a cliche, but... When a Jockey is riding well, they find ways to win. When a Jockey is not riding well, they find ways to lose.

Last edited by porchy44; 12-02-2022 at 05:48 AM.
porchy44 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-02-2022, 06:14 AM   #30
Brisk Urging
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
I wouldn't have described his trip like that in any way. He tried a little to hold the position and the horse was backing out. It happens. He also hardly "suddenly stepped on the gas" and he definitely didn't "circle the field." Actually, save the situation of position, he gave him an OK ride, saving ground and splitting horses. Frankly, I think the biggest crime in watching that video is cutting to a useless head-on angle mid-race. We will never know what took place during that period.

People tend to exaggerate trips and trouble. This horse isn't fast enough to keep up with the leader. He also might not have loved being inside of horses. Blaming Leon, and claiming he did something "criminal" is ridiculous, and that's being nice. Irad Ortiz might have finished second on him today. I don't see a scenario where he would have won.
Must you ruin the fun geez
Brisk Urging is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.