The Wood Memorial

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Crowded Trade can make noise in the Woody Stephens. Turf on the back burner, too.

Candy Man Rocket should cut back also but he stopped badly again after making a decent middle move (while caught wide throughout). Something might be amiss.

Hard for me to assess much of anything on that surface.

[JustRalph]

I was watching Serling and Wolf.

Andy called it after.......it was Sloooooowwwww!

I think half the horses in the Santa Anita Derby could have beat em all by open lengths

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by cj

Hard for me to assess much of anything on that surface.

I totally agree. Do people put these races in context? I went thru the charts and every dirt stakes race was slow. With the Carter probably being the fastest dealing with experienced horses. The track was part of this and appeared to be playing pedestrian. That being said after seeing how things played out...... I have my doubts about the Bluegrass and Wood. It’s not like this is news . Those races have sort of been non factors in recent years. But anyone that couldn’t see the trend at Aqueduct yesterday is just lying .

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

Hard for me to assess much of anything on that surface.

Was it a mildly difficult day to make figures?

The Excelsior was an extremely slow pace, the Wood either totally fell apart or those Pletcher horses jumped up or a bit of both, and the Gazelle was a bunch of lightly raced 3yo fillies sandwiched between.

Between AQU being a very windy place at times and that quirky surface I don't envy figure makers.

[Robert Fischer]

Risk Taking didn't lift a hoof.

Brooklyn Strong and Prevelance may not be very good, but they had some potential, and didn't lift a hoof.

Track was dull, numerical pace was slow, pace seemed in the moderate range. The setup helped horses coming from off the pace and clear, as no fast efforts seperated from a pack struggling to get nine panels.

Dynamic One ran the best race, but it was more of the type of race that gets you 3rd or 4th in a Derby Prep. The winner improved in a hot barn, and was visually impressive, but he didn't run as well as the place horse, and he came from last vs the staggering field.

Possible that ran near to 'their' races, but those performances should have been 3rd/4th/5th to a faster exacta performance in a real Derby Prep race.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Risk Taking didn't lift a hoof.

That horse didn't get the greatest of rides yesterday. After bobbling at the start ever so slightly, the horse was keen out of the gate. However, Irad Ortiz had him under stout restraint from the clubhouse turn to nearly the 1/2 mile pole with his feet on the dashboard, periodically grabbing the reins to keep the horse in check. Not surprisingly, horse had nothing to offer when Ortiz finally opened up his hands nearing the 3/8s pole. Then he let him float out about 7-wide around the bend.

Would it have made a difference given the surface? Probably not, but he's not a horse with a huge turn of foot (like most Medaglia d'Oros). He tends to stalk the leaders and grind past them when they tire down the lane. Wouldn't expect him to swoop the field like the other closers.

Risk Taking had rated much more kindly in his previous races (for different riders). Perhaps the near 2-month break between starts had him too fresh. Maybe if they still had the Whirlaway as a prep, Brown could have got another race into the horse (instead of cutting back in the Gotham against 2 stablemates).

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Was it a mildly difficult day to make figures?

The Excelsior was an extremely slow pace, the Wood either totally fell apart or those Pletcher horses jumped up or a bit of both, and the Gazelle was a bunch of lightly raced 3yo fillies sandwiched between.

Between AQU being a very windy place at times and that quirky surface I don't envy figure makers.

Not too bad by Aqueduct standards, but definitely a few quirks.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

That horse didn't get the greatest of rides yesterday. After bobbling at the start ever so slightly, the horse was keen out of the gate. However, Irad Ortiz had him under stout restraint from the clubhouse turn to nearly the 1/2 mile pole with his feet on the dashboard, periodically grabbing the reins to keep the horse in check. Not surprisingly, horse had nothing to offer when Ortiz finally opened up his hands nearing the 3/8s pole. Then he let him float out about 7-wide around the bend.

Would it have made a difference given the surface? Probably not, but he's not a horse with a huge turn of foot (like most Medaglia d'Oros). He tends to stalk the leaders and grind past them when they tire down the lane. Wouldn't expect him to swoop the field like the other closers.

Risk Taking had rated much more kindly in his previous races (for different riders). Perhaps the near 2-month break between starts had him too fresh. Maybe if they still had the Whirlaway as a prep, Brown could have got another race into the horse (instead of cutting back in the Gotham against 2 stablemates).

The track layout at Aqueduct is also causing issues with having a normal schedule, with the penultimate prep being a turnback to a mile and one turn.

Jerome, 1 turn mile
Withers, 1 1/8 miles
Gotham, 1 turn mile
Wood, 1 1/8 miles

Who thought that was a great idea?

When you consider the final 2yo prep is the early December Remsen at 1 1/8, it gets even worse.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

The track layout at Aqueduct is also causing issues with having a normal schedule, with the penultimate prep being a turnback to a mile and one turn.

Jerome, 1 turn mile
Withers, 1 1/8 miles
Gotham, 1 turn mile
Wood, 1 1/8 miles

Who thought that was a great idea?

The major problem is trainers (a) not wanting to make the final start too close to the Derby (Wood used to be only 2 weeks out) and (b) thinking they have their horses figured out in terms of specialty (i.e., sprinter or router) very early in their careers.

Especially because of the latter issue, tracks have taken all the handy sprint preps (Bay Shore, Swale, Hutcheson, etc) and put them on these "Big Day" undercards. But even a route horse benefits from a cutback especially off a layoff. Look no further than Secretariat's or Easy Goer's or Summer Squall's runup to the Derby.

NYRA probably just banks on two paths to the Wood by alternating the distance like that. But they could use another longer race. The tradition path for established horses was the Bay Shore-Gotham-Wood Memorial but there was also the Whirlaway and the Count Fleet mixed in there.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

The major problem is trainers (a) not wanting to make the final start too close to the Derby (Wood used to be only 2 weeks out) and (b) thinking they have their horses figured out in terms of specialty (i.e., sprinter or router) very early in their careers.

Especially because of the latter issue, tracks have taken all the handy sprint preps (Bay Shore, Swale, Hutcheson, etc) and put them on these "Big Day" undercards. But even a route horse benefits from a cutback especially off a layoff. Look no further than Secretariat's or Easy Goer's or Summer Squall's runup to the Derby.

NYRA probably just banks on two paths to the Wood by alternating the distance like that. But they could use another longer race. The tradition path for established horses was the Bay Shore-Gotham-Wood Memorial but there was also the Whirlaway and the Count Fleet mixed in there.

The problem is the Whirlaway and Count Fleet were run at shorter distances on the inner, which is no longer an option. Between the quagmire of a surface and the goofy schedule, hard for me to see any true Derby contenders coming out of NY any time soon. It is 1 turn mile, or 1 1/8. No truly top horse is going to take the New York route, and I think it is getting less and less likely a really good horse will be shipped in for just the Wood.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

The problem is the Whirlaway and Count Fleet were run at shorter distances on the inner, which is no longer an option. Between the quagmire of a surface and the goofy schedule, hard for me to see any true Derby contenders coming out of NY any time soon. It is 1 turn mile, or 1 1/8. No truly top horse is going to take the New York route, and I think it is getting less and less likely a really good horse will be shipped in for just the Wood.

Thanks I didn't completely factor in the significance of no longer having the inner track. If you're right about the declining significance of the Wood, perhaps they should go all in and put the race back to late April, 2 weeks before the Derby.

Trainers will do anything to get to Churchill, being the last and only prep that weekend will ensure some late bloomers and disappointments making one last ditch effort to get points. The Lexington plays this role but it has few points, less purse, and is only a week after the Blue Grass.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Thanks I didn't completely factor in the significance of no longer having the inner track. If you're right about the declining significance of the Wood, perhaps they should go all in and put the race back to late April, 2 weeks before the Derby.

Trainers will do anything to get to Churchill, being the last and only prep that weekend will ensure some late bloomers and disappointments making one last ditch effort to get points. The Lexington plays this role but it has few points, less purse, and is only a week after the Blue Grass.

Maybe that could work, points system has certainly screwed some things up. This includes making the sprints you mentioned irrelevant (Hutcheson, Bay Shore, San Vicente) and also eliminating a lot of speed from the Derby.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

Maybe that could work, points system has certainly screwed some things up. This includes making the sprints you mentioned irrelevant (Hutcheson, Bay Shore, San Vicente) and also eliminating a lot of speed from the Derby.

Excellent points.

Ironically, I meant to ask you if you are willing add the San Vicente to your Derby chart even though it is not a 'points' race. Despite this, it has been significant for the lead up to the Derby with Nyquist, Texas Red, Exaggerator, Into Mischief, Silver Charm, Free House, Came Home, The Factor, Sidney's Candy, Creative Cause, and Battle of Midway using it as a starting point in the past 25 years.

Last year Nadal took it and this year Concert Tour so it is still drawing the late bloomers at least. Hard to get a thorough read on the lightly raced types.

[JustRalph]

At what point do trainers decide not to head to NY?

Do the other preps get more horses?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

No truly top horse is going to take the New York route, and I think it is getting less and less likely a really good horse will be shipped in for just the Wood.

I think that has become more of an issue in recent years.

The top NY barns always went to Florida for the winter. So the NY winter ALW and Stakes races would always tend be weaker. But the Wood would still draw some of the best 3yos that shipped back and from elsewhere. I can't remember the old schedules, but having 3 major preps on the same day can't be ideal for all of them.

It may also be a little cyclical and random.

I remember having a conversation with a friend years ago about the SA Derby. He thought it was becoming a 2nd tier Derby prep race. Then Bob Baffert showed up.