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12-23-2020, 12:42 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I'm not a big weight guy, but I never thought about it like that.
So basically close to 50 years later I may still be underrating Forego (like he didn't beat me often enough already).
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One good indicator of how important weight was, at least in long races, was the lengths trainers went to in bullying the racing secretary not to assign heavy weights to their horses.
When you get up to 130 and above, it's a significant handicap, especially when the opponents were carrying 113 or something.
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12-23-2020, 12:53 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
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Do these self-righteous idiots realize what effect this is going to have on yearling sales?
Who's going to spend seven figures on a yearling, knowing that if he turns out to be a bleeder and after he runs through his allowance conditions, he's going to have to be given away in a $62.5k optional claiming race?
Either they're going to have to write money-condition and open allowance races for these horses, or prices of horses at yearling sales are going to plummet even worse than stock prices did in the early 1930s.
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12-23-2020, 01:43 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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They race without lasix all over the world and people still buy and breed racehorses. We raced for a very long time without lasix in North America and people still owned and bred racehorses.
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12-23-2020, 01:45 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston
Do these self-righteous idiots realize what effect this is going to have on yearling sales?
Who's going to spend seven figures on a yearling, knowing that if he turns out to be a bleeder and after he runs through his allowance conditions, he's going to have to be given away in a $62.5k optional claiming race?
Either they're going to have to write money-condition and open allowance races for these horses, or prices of horses at yearling sales are going to plummet even worse than stock prices did in the early 1930s.
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It's called gambling. Anyone who spent a bunch of money on a yearling like that seeing the public debate that was going on about Lasix may have made a bad bet.
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12-23-2020, 02:29 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
They race without lasix all over the world and people still buy and breed racehorses. We raced for a very long time without lasix in North America and people still owned and bred racehorses.
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I thought I read you were under the weather. If that's true, does this post mean you are feeling better?
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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12-23-2020, 05:20 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Will be interesting when some of the also rans in those non lasix stakes races run back in lasix allowance races. How many points are can be added to figure out his figure that he will run. An 80 in a stakes race worth how much in an allowance race? Did anyone keep track of the speed figures in non lasix races?
Allan
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12-23-2020, 05:22 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Also will the racing form keep track of the ROI for non lasix races for trainers.
Obviously there will be some marked differences?
Allan
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12-23-2020, 05:35 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston
Do these self-righteous idiots realize what effect this is going to have on yearling sales?
Who's going to spend seven figures on a yearling, knowing that if he turns out to be a bleeder and after he runs through his allowance conditions, he's going to have to be given away in a $62.5k optional claiming race?
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That could be viewed as a good thing; part of the reason owners retire their horses on a whim or after just a single Grade 1 win is to recoup all the money invested from the outset. The yearling market didn't go crazy really until the 1980s.
The quality of racing will never recover if purse money pales in comparison to breeding fees and yearling prices.
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12-23-2020, 05:58 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I thought I read you were under the weather. If that's true, does this post mean you are feeling better?
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Thank God, yes, thanks for asking. I got sick on Dec. 5, fever and all that goes with it for six days and then on Friday, Dec. 11, I passed out and fell and kept passing out and they took me to the hospital. I had Covid. I was in the hospital for two days but they decided that since my heart and blood tests were so good, they would not treat me. They said, "Go home and rest." Pretty strange, I thought, considering that I'm 66 years old.
So I came home on Dec. 12 and I felt like crap until 12/21. Walking up the stairs felt like climbing a mountain. I'm still not 100%, knocked the crap out of me, but much better. Fortunately, even though my wife also tested positive, she didn't get that sick, thankfully.
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12-23-2020, 06:17 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
That could be viewed as a good thing; part of the reason owners retire their horses on a whim or after just a single Grade 1 win is to recoup all the money invested from the outset. The yearling market didn't go crazy really until the 1980s.
The quality of racing will never recover if purse money pales in comparison to breeding fees and yearling prices.
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This. Especially if you want to see good colts race past 3.
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12-23-2020, 11:06 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,601
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Thought I read somewhere that Gulfdtream will run lasix free in all stakes on Pegasus day......not sure.
And...
NYRA running lasix free in all stakes races in 2021.......interesting.
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12-24-2020, 01:18 PM
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#27
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
Thank God, yes, thanks for asking. I got sick on Dec. 5, fever and all that goes with it for six days and then on Friday, Dec. 11, I passed out and fell and kept passing out and they took me to the hospital. I had Covid. I was in the hospital for two days but they decided that since my heart and blood tests were so good, they would not treat me. They said, "Go home and rest." Pretty strange, I thought, considering that I'm 66 years old.
So I came home on Dec. 12 and I felt like crap until 12/21. Walking up the stairs felt like climbing a mountain. I'm still not 100%, knocked the crap out of me, but much better. Fortunately, even though my wife also tested positive, she didn't get that sick, thankfully.
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Glad to hear you are feeling better!
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12-24-2020, 01:26 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
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Of course some tracks are refusing to go along with the anti-Lasix crusade: Monmouth Park isn't - and if I'm not mistaken, Indiana Grand isn't either.
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12-24-2020, 02:18 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston
Do these self-righteous idiots realize what effect this is going to have on yearling sales?
Who's going to spend seven figures on a yearling, knowing that if he turns out to be a bleeder and after he runs through his allowance conditions, he's going to have to be given away in a $62.5k optional claiming race?
Either they're going to have to write money-condition and open allowance races for these horses, or prices of horses at yearling sales are going to plummet even worse than stock prices did in the early 1930s.
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Gotta be honest, the last group of folks I am worried about are the breeders--the thoroughbred breed has only gone backwards in the last fifty years, which is quite impressive when you consider the billions of dollars that have been spent trying to breed faster horses.
If you spend a million on a yearling, you obviously have a million to lose...so you roll the dice and take your chances. Being a bleeder is one of a thousand things that could go wrong...and how many seven figure yearlings actually turn a profit?
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12-24-2020, 03:30 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston
Of course some tracks are refusing to go along with the anti-Lasix crusade: Monmouth Park isn't - and if I'm not mistaken, Indiana Grand isn't either.
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Some tracks took longer to adopt Lasix back when it got adopted (NYRA was the last big holdout, and they held out for several years).
So yes, it will take several years to phase out this performance enhancer.
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