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Old 05-24-2017, 10:45 AM   #61
elhelmete
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Just for the record, participation in poker is way way down.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:58 AM   #62
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When I take newbies to the track I almost exclusively suggest WPS and perhaps an exacta box. Sometimes we'll band together and do a show parlay for the day.

When I see someone trying to explain how to play multiple combos and wheels on tris and supers and pick 3/4/5/6s I can watch the newbies' eyes glaze over. Worse still is when you explain a trifecta to a newbie and they play a few 1x1x1 tickets and nothing even hits the board and you can see their enthusiasm just evaporate.

Getting newbies to cash a few tickets, even with a modest payout, is the gateway drug.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:59 PM   #63
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Just for the record, participation in poker is way way down.
And the reasons are complex, but not necessarily because millennials are not interested. The article below does a good job of explaining why on-line cash games have experienced a dramatic decline. Especially don't underestimate the impact of Black Friday in 2011 when on-line poker became illegal.

https://www.onlinepokerreport.com/21...ic-pokerstars/

Poker in casinos is also declining, but it may have as much to do with the decline of on-line poker as any other explanation. On-line poker built the game to high levels. When that left, so did a lot of professional poker players.

People love poker. They always will. I don't think things are anywhere near as bad as horseracing.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:28 PM   #64
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Gamblers stay away from horseracing because they lose more money betting horses than they do at other gambling ventures. It's as simple as that...IMO. And the takeout has a lot to do with that...no matter whether the bettors realize it or not.

When you lose your money day after day, then you eventually lose interest in the game that you are playing...and you find another game to play...where you can win once in a while.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Gamblers stay away from horseracing because they lose more money betting horses than they do at other gambling ventures. It's as simple as that...IMO. And the takeout has a lot to do with that...no matter whether the bettors realize it or not.

When you lose your money day after day, then you eventually lose interest in the game that you are playing...and you find another game to play...where you can win once in a while.
This is exactly why many tracks are trying to advertise races as a sporting event or "entertainment". At many other big events, they've almost given up on the racing. It is just a front to get you in the door. At Pimlico you can't even see the horses for half the race because of the stupid tents.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:22 PM   #66
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This is exactly why many tracks are trying to advertise races as a sporting event or "entertainment". At many other big events, they've almost given up on the racing. It is just a front to get you in the door. At Pimlico you can't even see the horses for half the race because of the stupid tents.
The old alternative revenue stream trick.

I would certainly take issue with anyone who didn't put take on the top of the list for reasons why racing is failing.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:42 PM   #67
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The take is the "silent killer". It kills you slowly...without any symptoms.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:48 PM   #68
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Fantastic post..!

The High Definition aspect of the horses parading and racing is without a doubt one of the best angles marketers simply must employ in our current and progressive technological environment...

Some tracks have really high quality "race-around" views with circulating cameras that "run" adjacent to the horses...I simply love that kind of show...!

With high definition TV's getting less expensive...these really bring the excitement close up...
Helmet cams and rear-facing saddle cams. I remember the first on-board cams in the Daytona 500 with Cale Yarborough and it was pretty exciting. He passed the lead driver late in the race and won to top it off, very late in his career.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:13 PM   #69
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I would certainly take issue with anyone who didn't put take on the top of the list for reasons why racing is failing.
This is not true. Do you think horse racing would be prospering with a 10% takeout across the board? No way. This is idiocy.

I'm not saying takeout isn't important to those in the know and needs to be kept in check but it has ZERO to do with the popularity of the sport. You need to ask some people not involved in the game why they don't follow it, bet it, frequent a track, and so on. If you get one person to answer "takeout" I'd fall out of my chair.

Hard core players have got to stop looking at this game through their own ethnocentric viewpoint. Is takeout an issue in the game? Absolutely! Does it have a correlation to the lack of interest in the game by infrequent participants? Not even one iota.

Frickin' casinos as full at all hours of the day. You do realize that 99% of the people in their KNOW they are most likely going to lose. Why are they there? Is pulling slot a good gambling venture? Hell no.

Think about it for a minute or two.

I gave you the reasons.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:44 PM   #70
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The take is the "silent killer". It kills you slowly...without any symptoms.
Hmmmm.
I always thought that was Irad.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:06 PM   #71
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When you lose your money day after day, then you eventually lose interest in the game that you are playing...and you find another game to play...where you can win once in a while.
In the big lobby at LaD that connects the track with the slots casino is a huge screen that shows big races like the Triple Crown, etc. The slots patrons will stream out of the casino to watch the big race, then go right back to the casino. Live racing is just yards away.
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Old 05-25-2017, 12:36 AM   #72
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This is not true. Do you think horse racing would be prospering with a 10% takeout across the board? No way. This is idiocy.

I'm not saying takeout isn't important to those in the know and needs to be kept in check but it has ZERO to do with the popularity of the sport. You need to ask some people not involved in the game why they don't follow it, bet it, frequent a track, and so on. If you get one person to answer "takeout" I'd fall out of my chair.

Hard core players have got to stop looking at this game through their own ethnocentric viewpoint. Is takeout an issue in the game? Absolutely! Does it have a correlation to the lack of interest in the game by infrequent participants? Not even one iota.

Frickin' casinos as full at all hours of the day. You do realize that 99% of the people in their KNOW they are most likely going to lose. Why are they there? Is pulling slot a good gambling venture? Hell no.

Think about it for a minute or two.

I gave you the reasons.
Slot revenues are decreasing rapidly for the reason I stated. The newer generation of bettors realizes they are a rip. And the number of older people is continually decreasing.

Speaking of idiocy, the hard core players represent the lion's share of the handle. Their view is critical because they are the ones primarily supporting the game. It would be like asking the 49% who pay the smallest share of taxes to make the decisions instead of the 20% who pay the vast majority of the taxes. To argue we need more infrequent participants misses the point that they'd be more frequent if they had a fair chance of winning, and that is where the take hurts.

I care about how to increase participation from the new generation of gamblers, and the way you do it is by making the game fair. Evidence shows that controlling their destiny and having a fair return for investment is on top of their list. As for your argument that none of the small, infrequent people care about the take, what they would care about is making some money at the track, and they would do so if the game was fairer. Without knowing the word take, they'd see the difference.

By the way, if you are playing a game and you don't know the parameters, that to me would be the definition of idiocy. I have no sympathy for your infrequent participants who take no time to learn the game.

One last thing. I'll continue to argue take is on the top of the list, regardless of what the uninformed might think. But I've also written about how to capture the millennials and how to improve the racetrack experience for the hard core and the newbies. There isn't one answer. Never was. But it's perhaps the most important part of the answer. Sorry if I didn't think your reasons quite hit the bullseye.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:53 AM   #73
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This is exactly why many tracks are trying to advertise races as a sporting event or "entertainment". At many other big events, they've almost given up on the racing. It is just a front to get you in the door. At Pimlico you can't even see the horses for half the race because of the stupid tents.
That also helps them avoid a lot of the BS they have to deal with if they focus on the gambling. While we live in a country with casinos and lotteries on every corner, if you focus on the gambling, you (1) have to deal with the anti-gambling advocates who are still out there, (2) set yourself up as competition for the many government-owned gambling sources (like lotteries) that have a lot more money and make the rules.

It's a tough spot to be in.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:55 AM   #74
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Slot revenues are decreasing rapidly for the reason I stated. The newer generation of bettors realizes they are a rip. And the number of older people is continually decreasing.
Casino revenues in the US went from $61 billion in 2010 to $71 billion in 2015. Can you explain where the "decreasing rapidly" part comes in?
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:20 AM   #75
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Casino revenues in the US went from $61 billion in 2010 to $71 billion in 2015. Can you explain where the "decreasing rapidly" part comes in?
Halvey stated that slot revenues are decreasing, not casino revenues. Read the following for some insight:

By KEN RITTER, Associated Press

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Nevada's biggest casinos combined to turn a profit in fiscal 2016 for the first time in eight years, but it wasn't due to gambling winnings, according to an annual report by state regulators.

Room rentals and fees helped resorts generate income of almost $979 million from total revenues of $25.2 billion in the year ended last June 30, the state Gaming Control Board said.

That compared with a net loss of almost $662 million on revenues of $24.6 billion a year earlier.

Casinos across the state recorded net income for the first time since fiscal 2008, board analyst Michael Lawton said Thursday, amid a trend that continues to tilt away from gambling and toward restaurant, retail, entertainment and room rental business.



"It's been a long road to get back in the black," Lawton said. "It's good not only because it's net income for the first time, but because it's net income in all areas across the board."

The revenue figure came in just 0.1 percent below the record $25.3 billion in total recorded in fiscal 2007, Lawton added.

The comprehensive annual report, dubbed the Gaming Abstract, was made public Wednesday. It includes more than 200 pages of data about 273 casinos in the state that grossed $1 million or more in gambling revenues. Topics include number of employees, room occupancy rates and gambling revenue per square foot of casino space.

The report found that 70 casinos owned by public companies statewide accounted for 78 percent of the total.

The report came amid reports of growth from Las Vegas tourism and airport officials.

McCarran International Airport was on pace in December to top the record 45 million passengers handled in 2015. The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority reported a record number of tourists, 42.9 million, in 2016.


The abstract includes data from casinos statewide, on the Las Vegas Strip, in downtown Las Vegas, along Boulder Highway in Las Vegas and in the Reno-Washoe County areas.

The most dramatic change was on the Strip, said David Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

"Nevada casino resorts have always been about more than just gambling," Schwartz said in an analysis of the report. He pointed to hotel rooms, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, entertainment venues and retail shopping.

"The revenue pattern of the industry has shifted," he said.

Lawton said the last time gambling revenues accounted for half the profit on the Strip was in the 1997-98 fiscal year.

This year, gambling revenues dropped to 34.2 percent of the total, the lowest percentage ever and a decrease from 34.9 percent last year. Gambling revenue in 1990, by comparison, made up about 58 percent of the total.

Schwartz said that while Las Vegas Strip casinos made about 2 percent more money in fiscal 2016 than they did in 2015, gambling revenues were up less than a quarter of a percent.

Room revenues, by comparison, grew almost 8 percent, and food revenues grew almost 3 percent, he said.
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